BBC Tests Pre-Commercial Toshiba Fuel Cell Laptop

nbannerman writes "Fuel cells have been talked about a lot recently, but Toshiba have finally demonstrated a working model. The BBC News website provides some interesting background on fuel cells, but does carrying a warning for the future; 'Toshiba's phase one fuel cell shows how near, but also how far, the version is from being a commercial reality.'"

Refulling issue?

[Kenja]

Am I the only one that dosn't want to be wandering around town looking for a means to refull my notebook? The only use I can think of for these things is a flash charger for my existing battery.

Huge

[Tx]

In terms of volume, it is around a litre and weighs about as much as the same measure of water.

I actually thought they were a lot closer than this. From the photo, it actually looks larger than a litre, I'd say closer to 1.4. In any case, fucking huge, and nowhere near practical. They need to shrink it by more than an order of magnitude to be workable.

Safety and technology

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the things that jumped out at me was the thought "wow, this thing is very dependant on technology just to be safe!". From the article:

The fuel cell is loaded with sensors. When suddenly picked up and shaken, anti-tamper sensors lock down the fuel cell to avoid leaks.

As it produces heat from the reaction, internal sensors make sure that it does not overheat.

What of the odds of those various sensors failing (and you know that they will for someone, somewhere) and what kinds of damage is caused when they do?

Re:Refulling issue?

[geekoid]

What do you do when your battery fails now?
Thats right, wander around until you find fuel(a.h.a Electricity)

Amp hours per Kg?

[cdavies]

The thing looks pretty big and heavy, I wonder how a similar size/weight Lithium Ion battery would stack up against it. Is the new technology really better at the moment?

Summary: Not Practical :(

[smug_lisp_weenie]

This fuel cell system weighs as much and is as large as a 1 Liter bottle of water... and gives 10 hours of charge?!

Clearly you could have a Lithium ion battery that lasts many more (20? 30?) hours at the same size...

...and clearly there has not been any marked for a notebook with a clunky battery- The closest thing to a laptop ever released which emphasizes battery power over weight is the Electrovaya Scribbler [electrovaya.com]- I have the 300 model and can get well over 10 hours out of it!

Maybe by the 3rd generation (and a decade from now) it will be able to compete with standerd batteries, assuming standard batteries haven't improved by then this technology might be worth a second look (which is unfortunately a possiblity, given the slow progress in battery technology)...

Re:spindly arms

[MrSquirrel]

Working at a University helpdesk, I saw a looooot of laptops... all shapes and sizes, young and old. Battery technology has progressed a long way -- but there's only so far it can be pushed. I find the best way to have a long battery life in a modern laptop is to NOT have a giant screen. Too many companies are sticking huge screens on laptops -- adding on to weight AND power consumption. Leave the huge screens to desktops please. As for the Dell laptops having short battery life? I'm guessing they are P4 laptops (Dell's lappy's only use Intel chips) -- the processor is a main determinant in battery life. P4's are energy hogs -- Intel's Centrino is more longevity friendly (and the new Yonah chip... WOW!). AMD has some good high-efficiency chips as well. When looking for a laptop, decide what you really need -- if it's a desktop replacement, go for the huge screen and whatever you want, but if you NEED a laptop to do work on the go (i.e. you can't plug-in), choose something with a reasonably sized screen, an efficient processor, and most importantly -- a second bay for an extra battery.

Re:Summary: Not Practical :(

[Anonymous Coward]

I put the laptop away and enjoy the beach?

Re:Safety and technology

[x1n933k]

Think about some of the lighters that use butane and other chemicals we tend to carry in our pockets or stuff into a car on a sunny day. With nothing more than a label warning on a box you threw out the moment you opened it.

If you read up on the method on how the cells work and other technology it may or may not put more confidence in you. Besides, systems fail and dangerous stuff is often carelessly misplaced or misused (I once discovered a Sidewinder missle on a beach). They're going to make it as sound as possible for now and if it isn't safe or screws up then people get hurt or die, such is the process of invention and exploration.

[J]

Doesn't look promising

[cartman]

Fuel cells have been promised for a long time now. As an example, I remember that a production fuel-cell car was promised by Mercedes to be available in showrooms by 2001...then 2004...then 2007...then 2009... And we still wait. And there are other examples: laptop makers have also repeatedly promised that fuel cells are right around the corner, with similar results.

It appears increasingly unlikely that fuel cells will ever happen. Although fuel cell technology continues to improve, the improvement is very gradual. It's not clear that fuel cells are progressing faster than new battery technology, in which case the two will never converge.

I should also note that the fuel cartridge (100ml) by itself, which powers the laptop for 10 hours, is not that much smaller than a battery. Even if toshiba drastically shrank the size of the surrounding electronics, making the entire cell the same size as a battery, it still would have no advantage. You would still have to carry around extra fuel cartridges (with methanol) for additional power.

Bear in mind that you wouldn't be able to recharge the cartridge by just pouring in more methanol, or buying new fuel cartridges at a convenience store. Methanol is extremely poisonous even in very small amounts, and medically significant amounts are absorbed through the skin. Therefore the fuel cartridges will require expensive and durable equipment to prevent the leakage of any fuel whatsoever when removed from the laptop. Probably the fuel cartridges will be expensive and will have to be recycled and disposed of properly.

Re:A gas powered laptop!

[Tolookah]

The big problem with fuel cells is that the real big reason to have a mobile laptop is travel, and there is no way airlines are going to let people get on a plane with fuel, something about explosives...

I don't know if the laptop companies are thinking about this, but I tend to travel alot by plane with my laptop, and the fuel cells are probably quite dangerous in the wrong hands.