China Files Case Against Intel's Wireless Network 274
Krishna Dagli writes "China has launched a case against American chipmaker Intel's near-monopoly on encryption standards for wireless local area network (WLAN) equipment, state press reported Monday."
Can we? (Score:5, Interesting)
-1 Lack of detail.
Re:They don't like real crypto. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, yes, China's motives are quite obvious.
But what they say intel did has some merit don't you think? After all, if Intel did something against ISOs rules, then we may be looking at WAPI as the new standard.
Re:This is like Freddy Vs Jason (Score:2, Interesting)
Also, it's illegal to buy or sell organs in most countries, so it's contributing to the black market problem.
Chinese Hypocrisy (Score:5, Interesting)
Consider the princelings of China [businessweek.com]. They and their parents are members of the Chinese communist party. These princelings live, for long stretches, in the West and enjoy its freedoms and prosperity. Yet, the parents of the princelings fully support and enforce the draconian Chinese "laws" that crush human rights in China.
I have personally met some of these princelings.
Do they realize their hypocrisy? Yes. Do they care? No.
Here is another, more damning, example. In 2001 in Northern California, the Chinese consulate in San Francisco sponsored an anti-Falun-Gong meeting conducted in Santa Clara, California. Chinese students from San Jose State University, Stanford University, and other neighboring universities, attended the meeting. The Chinese student associations at the respective universities fully supported the anti-Falun-Gong meeting.
These Chinese students enjoy the freedom and prosperity in the West but, actually, support the draconian Chinese "laws" that crush human rights in China.
Do they realize their hypocrisy? Yes. Do they care? No.
By now, you should realize that the authoritarian government in China exists for one reason: the majority of Chinese either support the authoritarian government or are indifferent to it.
Re:Why the surprise.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now look at Africa, with hell-holes like Central African Republic, Chad, Somalia, Zimbabwe and so on. Several countries in Africa do not even have a government and exist only on paper maps, they do not exist in reality as a country. They have no infrastructure, no roads, no railways, no hospitals, no schools, no clean water, but they do have a seat in the UN, where a nephew of a local war lord can spout off against developed countries...
Bah, humbug!
Re:They don't like real crypto. (Score:3, Interesting)
"Insulting". You have to read the article to really get a sense of it. I don't know how much of it's a show and how much of it is really that they ... feel they've lost face. Ok. It's real. Face matters in Chinese culture, a lot, and this is a combination of homegrown startup tech and nascent national status. By our standards, they subordinate truth to status even in rational endeavors, that's as contemptible coming from them as it is from our own politicians, and you can just see the feedback loop closing. Pray for some genuine diplomats, everybody's going to need them.
I wouldn't know enough to tell without some serious books-hitting — and since it's secret tech nobody has the facts anyway — but imagine the possible irony here: what if WAPI really is better? That's just too delicious. The unfeeling consumer-of-good-stories in me almost hopes it's true.
Its the IEEE they really have the gripe with... (Score:5, Interesting)
I love the idea of clandestine meetings around ISO and IEEE meetings, more people would go if that was true!
Re:This is like Freddy Vs Jason (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:They don't like real crypto. (Score:5, Interesting)
To say that you learned "most of your Mandarin in China" to me seems like a clever way of making the Slashdot masses consider you an authority. Clever because it deliberately omits how much Mandarin you know -- and without knowing anything at all about you I would bet a great deal that it's nearly zilch. Why? Because in order to learn to speak a language well, you must do more than take classes and read books -- you must interact on a personal level with speakers of that language. For someone who presumably does not have native prowess in a language closely related to Mandarin, the language is relatively difficult to learn, which would imply that, if you spoke the language well, you must have spent a lot of time interacting with Chinese people. As someone who has been doing this for quite some time now, I think I can state with reasonable certitude that no one open-minded enough to undertake this would come away from the experience with as narrow-minded and unnuanced an understanding as you appear to have.
Mandarin has so many face-related terms and sayings it is absolutely staggering. I can't speak with any authority on the Japanese interpretation, but I did study the Japanese language for five years while in school and I wasn't exposed to anywhere near the same lexical diversity. But I'll freely admit that I never spoke Japanese well, whereas I speak Mandarin very well.
Another poster said that the Chinese "treat each other like shit", or somesuch, but to me this is a classic example of a westerner using western metrics of politeness and propriety to judge the actions of people with a fundamentally different cultural background. Something similar occurs with the Japanese. There is a fascination with all things Japanese in the geek community -- I'll admit I don't understand it well myself -- but I'm frequently told by all sorts of people that the Japanese are exceptionally polite and well mannered. This is a tremendously two dimensional way of looking at an entire population of people.
Let's make one thing clear here: the percentage of assholes in any particular group is relatively constant. What makes a person an asshole is their intent -- their knowing willingness to insult, degrade, or upset others. A westerner not familiar with Chinese social norms observes inter-Chinese interaction and is surprised by their apparent penchant to treat each other like dirt. What he does not understand is that many things not acceptable in western culture (and even here I am generalizing, as neither Chinese nor Western culture as such are homogenous at all) are acceptable in Chinese culture, and vice-versa. In China, a Chinese person says something to someone else and thinks nothing of it -- he does not consider it rude and did not have any malicious intent whatsoever, and in turn the person who hears it thinks little of it. The same situation, but in the West: exactly the same words are exchanged, but the listener becomes tremendously upset, because in the context of western culture, saying such a thing is a violation of accepted social norms and as such only someone with malicious intent would say them. Conversely, the Chinese often say that westerners don't need much face, by which they mean that they are not hao mianzi, that we put up with all sorts of insulting situations that no Chinese person would ever put up with. I've been involved in street fights on several occasions because of face.
To get back to the Japanese, Westerners
Re:They don't like real crypto. (Score:4, Interesting)
I call bullshit. I've lived in China for almost half a decade now, I speak Mandarin at a nearly native level, and I can tell you that face means a great deal to the Chinese. You are guilty of the very mistake you accuse the OP of making: conflating Japanese and Chinese culture.
... but I'm frequently told by all sorts of people that the Japanese are exceptionally polite and well mannered.
Well I honestly don't know where you've been hiding for the last five years, so I can't call anything, but thats because I prefer to stick to the facts I know. Face means as muich to the Chinese as it does to a westerner, in that no one likes to be made to look a fool. The OP was referring to the convoluted and elaborate rules of "face" present in Japanese culture, of which you appear to be totally unaware. If you had been aware, you wouldn't have made that comparison.
and without knowing anything at all about you I would bet a great deal that it's nearly zilch.
I'm not going to get in a pissing match about levels of Mandarin, you seem to be more full of urine than me; you appear to be attacking me for a full paragraph there without any basis whatsoever, except that your opinions conflict with my observations. Thats called an ad-hominem. And for the record, I speak over eight languages with a varying degree of fluency, including some I can almost guarantee you have never heard of.
Mandarin has so many face-related terms and sayings it is absolutely staggering.
So has English. Egg on his face, brass balls, guts, gung ho, I could give you a few hundred. Your point?
the Chinese "treat each other like shit", or somesuch, but to me this is a classic example of a westerner using western metrics of politeness and propriety to judge the actions of people with a fundamentally different cultural background.
Treated like shit is treated like shit. Just because you were raised up in a community of slave owners doesn't make it right.
There is a fascination with all things Japanese in the geek community -- I'll admit I don't understand it well myself
Hot chicks and cosplay. Yes its a simplistic way of looking at a culture. It is not the entirety of their views however and you would do well to educate yourself as to what those views are before you go making accusations. Thats what I would call a tremendously two dimensional way of looking at "the geek community".
the percentage of assholes in any particular group is relatively constant. What makes a person an asshole is their intent -- their knowing willingness to insult, degrade, or upset others.
Not only is that not true, it occurs to me that people tend to be assholes based on how they view you. So your metrics here are off from the start. But carry on.
The same situation, but in the West: exactly the same words are exchanged, but the listener becomes tremendously upset, because in the context of western culture, saying such a thing is a violation of accepted social norms and as such only someone with malicious intent would say them.
Bollocks. Here in Ireland, you want to hear some of the locals, they would make a sailor blush. Thats also part of western culture, because you see the west consists of more than just America... Are we back to those two dimensional views?
demonstrating, I hope, that it is not that the Japanese are polite per se but rather that Westerners observing them lack the necessary knowledge to accurately describe them as such.
Why are we running down the Japanese now? Why are they even in this discussion? And the chinese have just as much of the same problem, during saint patricks day they have a great laugh at all the Irish running around wearing green hats. If you have lived in China, you'll know what that means. Not that anyone gives a rats ass over here.
Believe me when I say that the concept of face is important to the Chine