Utah Votes 'No' to Darwin's Critics

NewbieV writes "An article in Tuesday's New York Times notes that proposed legislation which would have 'stress[ed] that not all scientists agree on which theory regarding the origins of life, or the origins or present state of the human race, is correct;' has failed by a 46-28 vote in a Republican-controlled state House of Representatives."

Good Riddance To Yet More Bad Rubbish

[TripMaster Monkey]

Much more information regarding this decision can be found in this Salt Lake Tribune article [sltrib.com], including many memorable quotes from the legislators involved.

From TFA:

...religion infused the debate on SB96 from the beginning. [Senator Chris] Buttars forwarded the proposal because he insisted many evolution lessons contradict religious instruction. He is disgusted by the idea that humans evolved from what he calls a "lower species."

Also from TFA (this one is priceless):

"There are a number of influential legislators who believe you evolved from an ape," Buttars said following the vote. "I didn't."

Kudos to the Utah House of Representatives for giving this bill (as well as Senator Buttars himself) the treatment they both so richly deserve.

Re:saints preserve us

[lexbaby]

FYI: Mormon Seminary is "Release Time" from High School. The school sees it as the student isn't at the school for that period. This is true because the Seminary in on church property near the school, NOT on school property. Outside of Utah and some surounding areas, Seminary is taught early before school starts. Usually at a church or home of the instructor.

It is a good system. Let the schools teach science, let church teach faith, and let each individual figure it out for themselves.

Re:Good Riddance To Yet More Bad Rubbish

[IdleTime]

And if he wants to look at superior beeings, look to cockroaches, sharks and crocodiles. They have outlived almost every other spieces on the planet.

Re:Butt-ars?

[fishybell]

Well, listening to the morning [livejournal.com] radio [x96.com] here one comes to realize that Buttars is pronounced Butters, much akin to the poor chap living in Southpark, CO. He is, of course, not known here for Just the anti-darwin bill, but essentially Every horrible bill that is put before the state legislature. Everything from anti-gay bills to anti-hate crime bills to anti-video games bills all start with, or are strongly supported by, Chris Buttars. If he did not attend, I'd say roughly 50-75% more actual work would get done (note: this of course, would still not be a lot, this is Utah we're talking about).

For more Chris Buttars, please read [livejournal.com] through his various appearances as a nominee for "Boner of the Day" (morning show, daily moron contest).

Some of his great quotes include:

• "A great deal of my political stands come from my faith. I represent the values that have always been America's morality." - Chris Buttars
• "If you read the homosexual rule book, you'll find their greatest target is your kids." - Chris Buttars
• "I don't think the conservative side of the aisle understands incrementalism and the liberal side does, and that is one way we got beat." - Chris Buttars
• "The [government] has become totally hostile to moral and religious ideals." - Chris Buttars
• "They're everywhere. They're getting into everything, The homosexual community is going to undermine society." - Chris Buttars

Re:Good Riddance To Yet More Bad Rubbish

[Momo_CCCP]

Once again some people are deforming the Evolution theory to make their point.
The theory doesn't say man evolved from the ape but that man and ape once had a _common ancestor_. But I guess we can't expect everybody to be well-informed, even those who hold the power to decide...

*sigh*

Re:Enough Tolerance

[grammar fascist]

How many Utah public schools teach cosmology and biology according to Mormon, not scientific, principles?

None, as far as I know. Often our morality and thus school rules and such are informed by religious principles, but never science.

As someone else pointed out, BYU, the only private Mormon university, teaches evolution in biology class. The public schools do the same.

Re:I'm not really surprised

[bani]

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

Note that this does not grant anyone the right to not worship. It is freedom to religion, not freedom from religion.

Let's quote a non-authority who makes a wild guess

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably 90 percent of people who are LDS think the church is against evolution

This is a completely bogus number. (Hint: it starts with the word "probably.")
I'm going to make up my own number. 90 percent of LDS people don't know what their church's stand on evolution is.

Here's another number: 90 percent of college educated people don't know what Darwin wrote about the origin of human life. They know the general sketches of natural selection and other principles of evolution, but don't know Darwin's specific ponderings of these principles as applied to the origin of human life.

Boy, making up numbers is fun.

Fact: The doctrine of the LDS church is that Man was created by God, and all humans are children of God.

Fact: This does not preclude the principles of evolution in nature. Humans can walk into a science lab and create and manipulate life forms. Those life forms can evolve after they are created.

Fact: Humans have changed over time and locations--height, weight, hair color, skin color, lifespan, etc.

I'm not familiar with any scientific evidence that every single living thing on Earth evolved from the same original organism. If you believe that life emerged from some primordial ooze, there is not reason not to believe that it didn't emerge twice, or 10 times, or 1000 times, or 1 million times. In fact, you kind of have to believe that it did. Statistically, one solitary original life form would never survive long enough to reproduce. But 1 million spontaneous life forms emerging over 1000 years might result in 100 survivors, or 10. Why not believe that a human evolved from a different original source than did an oak tree?

Re:Good Riddance To Yet More Bad Rubbish

[Harry Coin]

However, "evolution" with respect to the origin of life is a theory.

Evolution does not concern itself with the origin of life. Evolution is the fact that organisms reproduce, mutate, and change. Evolution by natural selection is an important biological theory that is widely midunderstood. Abiogenesis [wikipedia.org] is the theory that life on earth came from primordial ooze, and it has a lot less evidence for it than does evolution. This does not mean that is it neccessarily incorrect.

Of course, many theists just lump them all together because they are either confused or deceptive.

Re:Let's quote a non-authority who makes a wild gu

[John Harrison]

I'm going to make up my own number. 90 percent of LDS people don't know what their church's stand on evolution is.

I'd go even further and say that 90% of Mormons think they know the position of the church on evolution and they are wrong. Wrong in that they don't know what the position is, and wrong in that they assume that it is anti-evolution. The official position is that the church takes no position on the matter. Evolution is not incompatible with LDS beliefs.