Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Christmas Cheer

Please Don't Ask Me About Windows On Christmas 559

Like many Slashdot users I spend a wee bit of my otherwise leisure time doing gratis tech support for people I may not even know. I usually don't mind too much but last Christmas I got more than one call from distant relatives that, along with wanting to spread holiday cheer, had me weigh in on whatever might be wrong with their new gadget. I was pleased as punch to see this article in the NYT (F.R.Y.Y.Y) about where I might be able to send the less techo hip. If you do *Windows* tech support for grandma after hours this article might also come in handy." Here are a couple of previous articles about the sorry state of conventional support options -- perhaps articles like this will spark some entrepreneurial ideas, too.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Please Don't Ask Me About Windows On Christmas

Comments Filter:
  • by stonebeat.org ( 562495 ) on Saturday November 23, 2002 @10:51PM (#4741068) Homepage
    In my Unix Operator days, I used to get these calls. Actually they turned out to be beneficial (to the OS world).... I got some of the users to upgrade to StartOffice/OpenOffice or even Linux.
  • Great idea (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MacAndrew ( 463832 ) on Saturday November 23, 2002 @10:57PM (#4741095) Homepage
    I'll offer to do support for Macs, since they're what I know best. Oh wait ... I'm done already. ;-)

    I feel ever so slightly guilty about it, but I have for years kept very quiet about knowing *anything* about computers. I used to do tech support (secondary to coding) and don't remember it fondly. If you couldn't fix the problem, you were possibly incompetent; if you could, the problem was maybe your fault, or easy. (OK, that's the mos cynical description.)

    Worst of all, people would ask me to work on their PC's (shudder) where I'm pretty ignorant, having tuned out around Windows 3.1. There's an idea out there that if you "know something about computers" that you can strike up a conversation with *any* computer. (You know, like the American theory that anyone anywhere can understand English if you just speak it slowly and loudly enough. ;-)

    But to help out is great, it's a shame to see $1000+ paperweights. Also, as a Mac fan and investor I have wanted people to enjoy their machine -- that evangelism thang.

    Gee, I had a point here. Just some observations I suppose, sitting here with my wireless iBook.... Works great.
  • by bstadil ( 7110 ) on Saturday November 23, 2002 @10:59PM (#4741108) Homepage
    I only fix windows problems for people I know bootlegged the latest upgrade of Windows.

    If they paid for the current software I ask them to have the people that got the money fix the problem.

    This is a good lead in for putting Mozilla / OpenOffice etc on the windows box.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday November 23, 2002 @11:24PM (#4741213)
    I"ve never downloaded mac drivers. In fact I don't even know how to download mac drivers, now that I think about it. Everything I've plugged into my OS X box has been recognized and "just works" as they say: epson printer, two digital cameras, USB card reader, replacement mouse, etc...

    doesn't XP work that way?
  • Re:PC Support (Score:5, Interesting)

    by NotAnotherReboot ( 262125 ) on Saturday November 23, 2002 @11:39PM (#4741270)
    Actually, I used to help my friend with his family's PC a good deal, fixing problems when they came up. After awhile his mom came over to my house and offered to give me money for working on it, and you know what my mom did? Turned it down. For doing work. This perception is definitely widespread, but I must admit it can actually be fun to get praised for fixing pretty simple things.
  • Re:How about... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by LL ( 20038 ) on Saturday November 23, 2002 @11:41PM (#4741277)
    Need to find that reference ...

    Not sure whether it is an urban legend or not but apparently some scientists were studying primate social patterns. They took the lowest social ranking individual (who was continually being beaten up by the alpha-males) and taught him how to operate a complex machine that produced food and reintroduced him back into the pack.

    Guess what? ... they stopped beating up on him ... but still treated him as low-monkey on the social totem pole .... :-(

    Any resemblance and extrapolation to human society is completely unsupported ... can anyone find the web link to this experiment?

    LL
  • by 888 Geek Help ( 607631 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @12:11AM (#4741391) Homepage
    Lucky us we were the lead story!
    More Info [888geekhelp.com] if your curioious.
    Even though I cures Bill Gates nightly before bed Microsoft is who keeps us in business. I feel like those northern California pot growers with the DEA. And yes the real geeks here at 888 Geek Help [888geekhelp.com] run Linux but none of our customers do. If you can compile a kernel you can find answers yourself. With the Wal-Mart distro's [newsforge.com] we may yet see that change Also none of our customers read Slashdot as they can't reach a URL without "www" [888geekhelp.com]
    BTW We are now hiring
  • by 888 Geek Help ( 607631 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @12:20AM (#4741416) Homepage
    Sorry to burst your bubble we get plenty of Mac calls. For 5% of market share they require maybe 20% of our calls (but are way faster to fix -provided we have enough Mac geeks on staff). Of course the Mac people like their computer while the M$ folks spend half the call time cursing Bill Gates. www.888geekhelp.com [888geekhelp.com] (lead in the aforementioned article) [888geekhelp.com]
  • Grow Up (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cooldev ( 204270 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @12:28AM (#4741441)

    Geez, grow up and try to help out your family, regardless of whether they use Linux, Windows, OSX, or Joe's Bait Shop OS v.4.13.

    Your family doesn't like your elitist, arrogant attitude any more than I do.

  • by 888 Geek Help ( 607631 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @12:48AM (#4741507) Homepage
    I would like to recommend us: 888 Geek Help [888geekhelp.com] . We are the lead in the aforementioned story. We run a decent and honest company -First, we don't just undercut the competition -we charge about 1/3 and then we give as much as possible to the Geek (tech) -Second, All levels of management also work a Geeks and everyone gets paid the same. Third, our model is to treat customers like we ourselves would like to be treated. No mailing lists, no information selling, no signups and no minimums [888geekhelp.com]. We use an extensive feedback [888geekhelp.com] system to make sure we are doing things right right. Also or service is just plain fair: We let the customer ask their question and tell them how long it may take before asking for billing information [888geekhelp.com]. Even then the customer can still back out for ANY reason [888geekhelp.com] within the first 15 minutes if they are not satisfied. We can do this because when we treat our customers right, they treat us well in return. Plus no job is too large or too small. Check out some of our Info [888geekhelp.com] or our FAQ [888geekhelp.com] for more. Also feel free to email me if you have a specific question. [888geekhelp.com]
  • Re:Ah yes... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Austenite ( 21871 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @12:55AM (#4741533) Homepage
    I find the two prevailing attitudes in most of these posts really disturbing.

    Not doing unpleasant chores for your family, like Windows support - I mean, they are your family ferchrissakes.

    Second, the idea that you can be a programmer/linux/mainframe person and know nothing about PC's. The parent of the this post is the most reasonable attempt at explanation of the lot. However, with an education, a developed analytical reasoning ability, lack of fear about items technological and an understanding of the principles of operation, there shouldn't be many problems most of your family could have that you could not assist with.

    Yes, you SHOULD be able to find the networking configuration of any GUI OS, for example. You SHOULD be able to take in the available information, formulate a theory, test the hypothesis and observe the results. You SHOULD be able to use whatever experience you do have, even if the situation is one you have not previously encountered.

    Unless of course you're a reasonably bright kid who was into computers early and skipped a proper unversity education to catch the IT boom and are now looking down the barrel of 40 years in a mature industry with no qualifications and no learning skills with which to update your specific technical knowledge.

    And no family who feel the need to support you when you need help.
  • Re:Upgraded to Linux (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kenshin ( 43036 ) <kenshin@lunarOPENBSDworks.ca minus bsd> on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:02AM (#4741555) Homepage
    There's something called "productivity", and it's called "turning the computer on and doing what I need to without fidgeting around with stuff".

    That feature also comes on the Mac platform.

    As for BSOD, yes, I got that twice a day on Win98, but only twice in a year and a half on WinXP.

    I installed Linux, once, and I didn't find much use for it other than dicking around and exploring stuff.
  • Re:Ah yes... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:14AM (#4741597)
    Hmm, a couple years ago my boss at the time told me "you really need to get over your Windows phobia and add some NT skills" .. so I could be more marketable, so I could do more work for him for the same money, so I would stop annoying the clients by telling them to ditch Windows, etc.

    I told him, fuck that, I'm not going to learn something that I don't use at home. That's why I'm a sysadmin in the first place, so I don't have to have separate "work things" and "home things". I like to get paid for what I enjoy. He understood and hired someone else to do Windows.

    So these days I still don't know shit about Windows, and I work as a Linux/FreeBSD consultant, and I have people I call to help when someone needs Windows experience. I see Linux in more and more places and I'm confident I can live the rest of my natural life not using Windows or putting my trust in Microsoft. Maybe someday I can swear off all closed-source software completely.

    Yeah, best tool for the job, blah blah, but I really don't want to get snared into using closed-source for anything permanent, because there's just no guarantee that they won't excercise the "lock-in" power and force me to upgrade, change licenses with the upgrade, break my code, or basically screw me over.

    Really, what I'm boycotting are "Use Licenses". If a closed-source company said "You can use our software, you paid for it. Just don't copy it" I wouldn't mind using them. How can anyone in a society based on ownership put their trust in another company like that? But I digress.

    As for the crack, JUST SAY NO. Actually that's not a bad analogy. You can always learn how to make your own crack cocaine, and avoid vendor-lock in. Uh, yeah. Maybe not such a good analogy...
  • Re:Upgraded to Linux (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bblgoose ( 597704 ) <(moc.klofekots) (ta) (bmit)> on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:28AM (#4741642) Homepage Journal
    C'mon people, this argument is getting tired. Isn't the industry well developed enough at this point to realise that hey, linux is stable...wow, MS is easy to use (therefore preferred by Joe User)...y'know, if I know both, I might just be able to get by....

    For the record (from my 2K Server):

    Current System Uptime: 147 day(s), 23 hour(s), 4 minute(s), 18 second(s)
    Since 25/06/2002:
    System Availability: 99.9668%
    Total Uptime: 151d 11h:45m:31s
    Total Downtime: 0d 1h:12m:25s
    Total Reboots: 8
    Mean Time Between Reboots: 18.94 days
    Total Bluescreens: 0

    From my Linux server:
    5:17am up 93 days, 20:22, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

    (sorry, that's as detailed as you get with linux)
  • by hawkbsd ( 86544 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @01:36AM (#4741683)
    My father was a dentist (he recently retired). A number of the family friends were therefore also medical people (other dentists, orthopedic surgeons, general pracititioners, surgeons, etc.).

    Growing up going to Christmas parties, it would frequently come to pass that someone would walk up to my father and say "Merry Christmas, Doc! Listen, I've got this tooth that's a bit sore..." and then proceed to open his mouth and point at the tooth in question and make noises that tried to sound reasonable while still letting Dad have a view of the canapes lodged in their molars.

    My father has been getting the last laugh, however. Because now (15 years later) when we're together at a Christmas party, people say "Hey, aren't you in computers or something?" and then proceed to tell me about their latest woes connecting their latest toy. Or they want to know who this "General Protection Fault" guy is and what the military is doing in their computer.

    Although I have to admit: telling them I don't use Windows and can't help them does result in a marvelous blank look from them I use to run away and see about some more canapes.
  • by berniecase ( 20853 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @02:05AM (#4741759) Homepage Journal
    ... and the only reason I do, is because I provided her a PowerMac two years ago as a X-mas present, complete with Internet access. I pre-configured it before I gave it to her, and I know exactly how everything is set up and what software needs to be updated and when.

    This computer's 7 years old now (it's a PowerMac 7600), and runs OS9, but it works, and it works damn well. She hasn't complained to me about speed (it's only a 255MHz G3), and recently commented on how much she'd like a laptop and printer for work (she's an RN). My girlfriend mentioned that she has an available iBook and my mom seemed quite interested.

    Yes, I'm unabashed Mac supporter, but for a reason. It worked great, for my mom, and it works great for me. I knew she was really using it when she started meeting guys online. Hoo boy.
  • Re:Upgraded to Linux (Score:4, Interesting)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @02:31AM (#4741838) Homepage Journal
    "I get lots of code done on my linux box... perl/tk, my website, java, some C, etc...
    and on windows, I get just as much work done....
    ut2003, battlefield 1942, neverwinter nights....hey wait a minute....
    just a an fyi, not a troll.

    my point is, for me, linux is both a tinkering system and a WORKstation... the windows partition is strictly for goofing off:) "


    Are you implying that Windows isn't for 'work'? Sorry, I can't quite tell. Well in case you do mean that, hear my story:

    I'm a 3D Artist. I do lots of 3D rendering using Lightwave. I do texture painting in Photoshop. I do compositing in After Effects. My computer is *constantly* busy. I'm running Windows 2000, and I don't have stability issues. (I wouldn't dare say that about Win 9X, at best I had 2 days uptime with any of those OS's.)

    I get quite a bit of 'work' done, and Windows isn't standing in my way. I have not lost a single render due to Windows or LW instability.

    Would Linux be just as stable? Sure. No doubt about it. The thing is, though, Windows is happily doing what I need it to. (And the games you mention are a big plus) If I'm to switch to Linux, it's going to have to be better than Windows, not just caught up.

    It's funny really, this article is about supporting Windows. What about supporting Linux? I loathe the idea of telling my mom (who lives 3,000 miles alway) to open a 'shell window' and type in badly spelt commands in a case sensitive manner.

    Anyway, rant rant rant. If Windows was such a 'toy OS', I wouldn't be able to depend on it. I know lots of people, all artists, that'll tell you the same thing.
  • my solution (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 24, 2002 @02:38AM (#4741866)
    i try to only support my parents. they wanted a new(faster) computer. i said, give me 50$, buy the stuff and ill get it set up for you. i installed xp, all of thier shit and thier documents/email over, made an image and told them that if they fucked it up, they will lose all of their data, that they are responsible for backups and that i will just image the system
  • A christmas story (Score:3, Interesting)

    by yuriwho ( 103805 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @03:19AM (#4741998)
    While I am not Jamie Porshe. I set up my folks with a wireless airport network that would automatically connect to their DSL whenever they accessed an app that required the "net". Six months later, my sister, who has the same ISP asked me how I was able to have my parents connect automatically...she always has to use Internet Connect when accessing the net. I told her that I had configured the Airport to connect automatically...She now is deciding whether it is worth buying an Airport to forgo having to connect each time.

    My folks are very happy with their set up.

    Think of the hours of wasted time saved by some software that does a routine task.

    I did my part last christmas, but this shit should not even be necessary. The OS should automatically configure things for people.

    Y
  • Re:Ah yes... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by shepd ( 155729 ) <slashdot@org.gmail@com> on Sunday November 24, 2002 @04:14AM (#4742160) Homepage Journal
    I like my solution:

    Charge $20 a hour. Turn your hobby into a business. Make money and enjoy it. Charge much more when you have the brick and mortar (Prices up to $60 an hour should be no problem). Lather, rinse, repeat.

    The best part is, if you're careful about it, you never have to advertise (all I do is pass my business cards to the right people). My "on the side" (but still reported to the tax-man) earnings have surpassed my part-time job, to the point where I have to be careful with my time so that I can squeeze that last few months of college in before I go full-time (I may need to quit my "real" job shortly). All you need to do is find something you can do that most others (including your fellow techs) can't do. One of my specialties is modchip installations. Once your specialty is known, you'll get jobs for it, and all the usual stuff will fall into place too (fixing DUN, virus/ad-software removal, building computers, building home networks, cabling, satellite installs, etc. for me).

    Nothing beats a self started business. And yes, I will work Christmas evening - that's when people want to pay me the most (I can already see the multi-digit tips -- thanks for that goodwill cheer!). I just can't "open" the store that day (stupid laws). :-)

    You know, for all the complaining I do about windows, it _does_ ensure I've got a steady job.

    Maybe I shouldn't be giving away the keys to growing your own home business to everyone on slashdot. I really don't need any more competition. ;-)
  • "the best tool" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Idou ( 572394 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @04:27AM (#4742194) Journal
    "That's YOUR decision if you choose to ignore Microsoft just because they're microsoft - and I certainly won't bash you for it - but sometimes a microsoft product IS 'the best tool' for the job.."

    I am not in IT, but I always find it amusing how efficient IT "professionals" are. Too efficient, I might add.

    I have been studying to become a CPA, and I can state from direct experience that the current set of accounting standards are by no means the "best way to do things." In this respect, accounting standards for CPAs are comparable to Laws for Lawyers. So if they are so inefficient, why do CPAs and Lawyers make much, much more $ than "IT Professionals?" Because CPAs and Lawyers are REAL Professionals (please hear me out on this).

    You see, REAL professionals need organisations, that are acting in the best interest of the profession, to have control over the standards of the profession. CPAs have the AICPA (and FASB). Lawyers have the BAR association. And IT workers have . . . Microsoft, who, like you said, control most of the industry, so they control the standards of the profession.

    However, MS doesn't care about the IT profession. They care about selling their software. Cheap IT workers = more software sales. So, Microsoft prints out MSCE certificates like its printing out money, turning IT workers into somewhere just above your average McDonald's employee.

    I know, in your effort to do your job "better," you pick the "best tool." However, while you are doing a great service to your company, you are doing a great disservice to your profession when that "tool" reinforces a closed standard.

    The lack of wider use of Open Standards and Open Source software (at least for Operating Systems, which set the standards for all applications, commercial and non-commerical) are the only things keeping IT workers from enjoying the security that other professions enjoy.
  • The Real Problem (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Local Loop ( 55555 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @04:39AM (#4742233)
    The real problem with fixing someone's PC is that they won't follow the two simple rules of a stable windows box:

    1. Install what you need, then never install anything else. Especially not games!

    2. Always shut down correctly before turning the power off.

    I help the people that follow the rules. They have very stable windows machines that work well for *years* and stay fast with no registry bloat.

    People who don't follow the rule quickly get crashy, unreliable systems - and frequently try to make me feel responsible for their problems, because I'm the last person who mucked with the settings.

    My uncle is a bit older and taught me this lesson early. See he's an electrical engineer and learned how to fix TV's in the sixties. When word got out that he could fix TV's, he spent all his time fixing TV's for friends, and then got blamed when they eventually died anyway.
  • disturbing (Score:3, Interesting)

    by raisin ( 30710 ) on Sunday November 24, 2002 @04:12PM (#4744756)
    i'm completely disturbed by the posts that have been modded +5 on this one.

    this is your family. help them out. grow up. this is what people do for one another.

    you can't help your dad with his ridiculously old machine? how long has he put up with you and perhaps even encouraged whatever led you to being this computer savvy, to then have you turn around and claim your too busy or can't be bothered? give me a break.

    be thankful that all that crap in your head that you learned while pissing away hours to get something to work can be used to help someone else. how about some return on your own investment of all that time--now you can do something useful with it, where "useful" doesn't necessarily mean self-serving.

    say you have an uncle who's a mechanic. chances are, you're going to ask him if you want to know about something wrong with your car (you'd be stupid not to, unless you know more than he does already). the joke about "50 mhz processor, 4 mb ram, etc." and trying to install the sims? sure it's modded as funny, but it's just like you trying to get that uncle to repair your piece of crap that you drive. get over it. help them understand what's wrong with what they're trying to do. teach them something.

    and even if you'd never go to this hypothetical uncle, it works in all occasions, whether its their background or just about anything you might ask of anyone else (i need help moving! could someone drop me of at ...). don't kid yourself and think that you're an island and never need any help. the connection is still valid, because hopefully in your all-knowing little world, you can use some of that omnipotence to understand some of these other situations. that you're not the only persecuted soul who has to/ought to use some of their background to (gasp) help people.

    my brother is a builder, and does construction. if i want to get something built, or need to have it done, am i going to consult him? of course. if he can't get his 14.4 modem to work with his crappy old mac, is he going to call me? of course.

    welcome to the world, folks. you don't live in a vacuum. drop the self-importance and start interacting with people. be useful for a change. and i say for a change *only* because from the sounds of the majority of what's been modded up, there are a few too many people who live in this vacuum.

    think about the hell you've gone through with your machine, even when *you* supposedly know what you're doing. now imagine how much worse it is for the people asking for help, when they don't even know the first thing about what's going on with their $2500 desk ornament.

All seems condemned in the long run to approximate a state akin to Gaussian noise. -- James Martin

Working...