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The Internet

South Africa Wants Control of .za 345

fdiaz5583 writes "Recently, the South African government wants to seize control of the .za domain. However, ICANN owns the domains and under the ICANN rules, they will not relinquish control. Mike Lawrie who is global administrator of domain names states: 'If it becomes illegal for me to do the job under South African law and if I am not authorized by ICANN to hand over the administration, the .za domain will have to shut down until the issue is cleared up'." We mentioned this tussle earlier. The .za administrator doesn't like the way the government is going about this; the government, of course, has men with guns, so it's not like he's going to win in the end, it's only a question of how ugly it will get.
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South Africa Wants Control of .za

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  • by Bollie ( 152363 ) on Saturday June 08, 2002 @06:27PM (#3666254)
    As a citizen of this banana^H^H^H^H^H^H^H wonderful republic (I don't know anymore) of South Africa, I just have to give you my unbiased opinion:

    I'm biased.

    It seems lately I've developed a knee-jerk reaction to anything Microsoftian and/or coming from this two-bit^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H democratically elected leadership. When I see stupidity, I really dislike it. Unfortunately, it looks like it's on the rise.

    To the world out there, I can only say a couple of things:
    1. What do you expect of a country where the Prez does not believe HIV causes AIDS?
    2. What do you expect of a country where the government telecommunications monopoly is so bad that more people have cellphones than landlines?
    3. What do you expect of a country where everyone votes for the same party, regardless whether they messed up, promise to mess up or promise not to mess up again then mess up?


    To the couple of South Africans who are reading this I just want to say:
    1. Hoesit!
    2. I recommend Prozac, and in large doses.
    3. Keep our humour, it's the only national emblem we have.


    That's it. Sit back and watch the show people, I can guarantee you will be entertained!
  • by elfdump ( 558474 ) on Saturday June 08, 2002 @06:44PM (#3666312)
    I suspect these little quarrels between ICANN, South Africa, and other groups are harbingers of major DNS conflicts in the future. For example, what if Microsoft, instead of South Africa, demanded a particular TLD?

    It's not a prospect anyone is looking forward to, but I think we should accept the fact that our system of TLDs and DNS hierarchy is going to fall apart. Our current system demands too high a level of political and economic consistency; eventually some large, politically powerful groups will break away and form their own system; or (perhaps more in line with current trends) the system will fall under the power of large corporations and people will break away and form their own roots.

    So what needs to happen is the development of a system whereby multiple DNS roots can be easily used and DNS conflicts are resolved by the end-user rather than a commitee. It's unfortunate, but the Internet spans too many political and cultural boundaries for a "cathedral" model to be effective.

  • Other root zones... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 08, 2002 @06:46PM (#3666328)
    Well, incase everyone didn't already know icann sux, if the whole world (not likely) would point to a better root zone [open-rsc.org] that plays fair, ppl would control the internet, instead of big companies. Here's [open-rsc.org] the howto....
  • Common Sense... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tim12s ( 209786 ) on Saturday June 08, 2002 @06:49PM (#3666342)
    Top level domains should obviously be controlled and administered by the government of the country they represent. The .za domain is the zone of an entire country. The name registrar is therefore a monopoly of services, and all monopolies should be regulated. The government should delegate management to a (private) organisation that is able to provide the quality services that are required. If that company does not provide the services, then the government should choose a different company.

    Thats the same as the US government not having regulatory control over their own airwaves/airspace. Crazy.

    ---

    The real beef is that governments are historically less speedy in providing the services required, but this should not prevent any government from having regulatory authority over the naming and addressing of the internet within its own borders.

    ---

    -Tim
    A South African.

    ---

    I dont like the idea of potentially putting a company out of business because of governemental involvement, but some of the proposed regulatory changes will have to happen at some point in the future, in many places in the world.

    Q?: Why should ICANN have a whip over the internet naming of an entire country? ICANN should recognise the regulations of govermental regulation of its namespace.
  • by dbucher ( 199847 ) on Saturday June 08, 2002 @07:14PM (#3666423) Homepage
    A: It's very simple :

    1. The US army (= the governement) created Internet
    2. They authorized universities to connect
    3. They authorized people in the world to connect
    4. They authorized commerce
    5. They delegated THEIR rights to ICANN

    That's it. Internet belongs to the US governement that *GAVE* its control to ICANN.

    Countries have nothing to say like they have nothing to say about Ford Motors or about International Red Cross.

    Now, is that good ? That's ANOTHER question...
  • Re:Alternativly (Score:3, Interesting)

    by psaltes ( 9811 ) on Saturday June 08, 2002 @07:16PM (#3666428)
    I think you didn't read the article.

    There is one person (a south african, not foreign) running the domain right now, not any sort of committee. He has stated that he does not want to continue running it, sice he's been doing it for years without getting paid for it. He is running it basically because he was around when the opportunity to have a .za domain name came up, way back at the beginning. However, he doesn't want to give control to the government without them following ICANN procedures. The law would simply make his administration of the domain illegal.

    I also did not take the comment about guns as a statement about south africa. Every government in the world has guns, and very few seem overly afraid to use them. In fact, there's not a country in the world that the statement "the government, of course, has men with guns" would not apply to. I think this statement certainly wouldn't be out of context if used on, e.g. America.

  • by dgym ( 584252 ) on Saturday June 08, 2002 @07:25PM (#3666450)
    Why should the government or indeed anyone in South Africa claim right to a convention that is used by the entire world to simply refer to them?

    .za should not belong to South Africa because it refers to them, .za belongs to every single entity on the internet (using the current domain name system) because it is there to serve us as a reference to South Africa.

    I think if myself and the other residents on my street joined together and tried to seize control of our postal code (after all, it is how people send stuff to our street) we would be laughed at because it makes no sense.

    Now I realise that puchasing of domain names has lead to a way of thinking that domain names belong to their owners, and therefor who better to own a country wide domain name than a body in that country, but I feel that is a misconception.

    A more correct term for purchasing domain names is registering domain names (which can involve the transfer of money) which actualy implies the assignment of rights rather than the assignment of ownership. You get the exclusive right to have that name point at you, but it is never owned because it is just a name, and it belongs to the people using it to refer to you as much as anyone else.

    Now what would help people (myself included) understand the situation better is an explaination of what you can actually do once you have 'seized control of .za'. Is this actually an issue?

    Please would someone care to explain the implications of such a situation. If it has all sorts of potential implications on how the internet or other global systems could pan out then it would be of great interest if these were explored in detail, otherwise who has control of a domain name seems rather irrelevant news.
  • by mudrat ( 412407 ) <(mudrat) (at) (iafrica.com)> on Saturday June 08, 2002 @08:22PM (#3666590)
    As a fellow South African, I am deeply concerned by this comment and ones like it whaich have been poseted here. Sure, Mr Mbeki has made some major mistkes in dealing with some pressing issues. Sure, the government's economic policies regarding privatisation and government control are not overly clear.

    Even acknowledging all this problems, South Africa's government is not bad by world standards. Firstly, they hava managed to retain a very high level of freedom for all South Africans, mor than can be said of That Major Democracy Across The Atlantic. Secondly, they have worked very hard to provide for the primary health care and education needs of a largely underprivledged population.Thirdy, they have implemented basically sound economic policies.

    There are a lot of cluess idiots in the South African government, but equally there are many clueless idiots in any government. The important point is that the government is working to make sure that all the tenents of the Bill of Rights are fulfilled for all South Africans.

    Sure, this is a stupid step to take, but it does not make SA a banana republic, any more than the DMCA makes the USA a banana republic.
  • by Alsee ( 515537 ) on Saturday June 08, 2002 @08:28PM (#3666610) Homepage
    Anyone who wants to manage an internet namespace (.ZA in this case) has three choices. (1) Overthrow ICANN, (1) Work within ICANN's rules, or (3) Ignore ICANN.

    South Africa's mistake is that they chose option 3, and I will explain.

    Option 1, overthrowing ICANN is an interesting option (good? bad? I dunno). This is clearly NOT South Africa's intent however.

    Option 2, Working within ICANN's rules would have saved everyone a big headache. The current .ZA administrator would be happy to unload this unpaid job he's doing. Heck, buy it from him for $1.

    So, what's wrong with Option 3? A web site is useless unless people can find its IP address. The only way to find the IP address is to look it up in the list published by the official domain administrator. To find this list they ask their LOCAL ISP (probably NOT in South Africa). If the South African government "seizes" control - publishes it's own list and preventing the current administrator from publishing a list, then the "official list" vanishes".

    It would then be up to individual LOCAL ISP's to take it upon themselves to use the unofficial South African government list, or to follow the rules and answer "UNKNOWN".

    The internet works on COOPERATION. Without it .ZA does not exist outside South Africa's physical borders.

    -
  • by mav[LAG] ( 31387 ) on Saturday June 08, 2002 @09:46PM (#3666886)
    No one here in South Africa minds who controls .za as long as a) it works and b) it's managed according to the RFC and the informal rules that the late John Postel put in place circa. 1985. The local Internet community are totally opposed to the ridiculous provisions of Section X of the Government's Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill.(Some of the other sections are equally idiotic but let's stay focused here).
    Specifically they want to replace the non-profit organisation Namespace [namespace.org.za] (whom Mike Lawrie consults to) with a huge unwieldy bureaucracy that will cost the taxpayers millions and is overseen by the Communications Minister. In other words, a simple administrative function that has been performed superbly by a single highly-competent individual over the last decade will now be replaced by an eighteen person board of directors whose salary bill alone is millions per year. Not only that but the Government's spin on the whole debacle is that they are imposing some form of democracy on the current evil monopoly that Mike Lawrie has subjected us all to.
    This is complete bullshit. Mike Lawrie and Namespace have repeatedly tried to get the Government involved in ccTLD administration with no success for many years now. The Department of Communications, led by two politicians whose only qualities seem to be an equal balance of power hungriness, greed and incompetence (Ivy and Andile - yes, this means you two) say that Government control over .za will lead to some kind of new era of Internet prosperity where all people in our country will suddenly get Internet access.
    A few facts are in order.
    • The South African Government cannot even manage it's own name servers - let alone the whole country's. Five out of six of them are currently mis-configured or not working. If they do take over and .za suddenly goes dark for a few days because of some technical or beauracratic cock-up, our economy will suffer enormously.
    • Internet access for all is dependent on our telecommunications infrastructure and policy - which The Department of Communications has - to put it politely - completely fscked up over the last eighteen months.
    • The Department has not taken on board 1% of the industry advice it has pretended to listen to since it was taken over by the two current fools. Together they have crippled our local telecoms regulator so much that the incumbent phone monopoly can charge what it likes without fear of being slapped down.

    And yes, as a South African journalist who's been following this saga for quite some time, I don't mind saying that I'm really pissed off.
  • by BrickZA ( 138084 ) on Sunday June 09, 2002 @11:02AM (#3668558) Homepage
    As a South African, I find the following quote from the article most distasteful:

    "...the government, of course, has men with guns, so it's not like he's going to win in the end, it's only a question of how ugly it will get."

    We have the rule of law,you know, and an excelent constitution. I trust our constitution to protect my rights. More so than in most "first world" countries.

    This argument will certainly not be settled by men with guns, but most likeley in the South African Constitutional Court.

    The goverment has been challenged on constitutional grounds before, and have in many cases lost. And the beautiful thing is, the decision of the Constitutional court is respected, and upheld.

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