Microsoft's Guide to Accepting Donated PCs 643
An anonymous reader links us to Microsoft's Guide to Accepting Donated Computers
for Your School, which contains humorous statements such as
"If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC. "
It's just an amusing little read that basically amounts to keeping the license
with the PC. Also neglects to mention the Naked PC discussed in this slashdot story.
I just find it funny... (Score:4, Interesting)
They make it sound all smiley like "And remeber kids.. that PC used to come with Windows, so you have to put Windows back on!" - but really its like "You WILL have Windows on that PC. If you fail to comply, Microsoft will submit you to an audit of all your installed products & licenses!"
Kinda like the teacher in school who you always thought was a witch.. and if you didnt do your homework, she really would turn you into a toad or somthing
Upgraded OS? (Score:2, Interesting)
Also, what if the machine is donated with a non-MS operating system, or for that matter, no operating system at all?
Alternative guide! (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's some ideas:
- You are under no obligation to accept any software, hardware or other parts provided.
- You may refuse any (software) licenses donated since you have not accepted them.
- You are free to reinstall any software to the machines provided that you aqcuire valid licenses for this software
- etc.
Workarounds (Score:3, Interesting)
One would only need to find out what constitutes the PC. Is it the processor, the case, the hard drive? Whatever it is - change that so that you no longer have the original PC. Then install whatever you want on it.
I'm sure there are many more ways around such a thing.
.
Didn't work for Apple (Score:2, Interesting)
er.. Upgrades... (Score:2, Interesting)
Self-contradictory advice (Score:5, Interesting)
A. It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating system that was installed on the PC.
Ok, that sounds pretty dubious, but let's accept it for the sake of argument. Now on to the contradiction:
Q. Can I upgrade the operating system on a donated machine?
A. Yes, once the machine and installed operating system is transferred to your school or institution you own the PC and the licensed software. You can upgrade via Microsoft Academic Licensing Programs: Microsoft School Agreement Subscription, Microsoft Campus Agreement Subscription, Microsoft Academic Open or Microsoft Academic Select. Contact your preferred Microsoft Authorized Education Reseller for details.
OK, so which is it? Does the school license the software on the used PC, or do they own it?
If they own it, what was the status of ownership by the donor, prior to the donation? Did the owner own it? If he owned it, then he does not have to transfer it with the PC, since it is his property to do with as he sees fit. If he did not own it, how come the school becomes the owner when they accept transfer of the license from the donor? Does this mean we can "launder" EULA's by donating each other the PCs we wish to buy? Seems like receiving a donated OS with a donated PC is the way to own the OS instead of just becoming a licensee.
Re:I just find it funny... (Score:1, Interesting)
Q. Can I upgrade the operating system on a donated machine?
A. Yes, once the machine and installed operating system is transferred to your school or institution you own the PC and the licensed software. You can upgrade via Microsoft Academic Licensing Programs: Microsoft School Agreement Subscription, Microsoft Campus Agreement Subscription, Microsoft Academic Open or Microsoft Academic Select. Contact your preferred Microsoft Authorized Education Reseller for details.
Re:Alternative guide! (Score:5, Interesting)
You could actually use Microsoft's attitude against them. You could say that if a donated PC has a Microsoft Operating system, and does not come with all the necessary licences, the cheapest thing to do would be to install linux and free open source software packages on it Say that Microsoft might take legal action against you if you don't have the licences, so it's safer to install non-Microsoft software?
Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)
I suppose that M$ would not approve of the fact that schools bought licenses of windows to run on boxes that would cost less off the shelf than a windows license...
Re:This is Quite Ridiculous (Score:2, Interesting)
Now, I'm not aware of (commodity) hardware coming with a licence agreement, so I'm assuming that it's the copy of Windows that is licenced. Somewhere in that licence agreement will be a clause that says that that copy of Windows can only be used on the machine that it came with.
I realise that that is not exactly what Microsoft are saying; they've dumbed it down and left out the details, specifically (and most damningly) the fact that it is the donator that is potentially breaking the terms of the licence agreement. That could easily be rectified by including a sentence or two explaining the situation.
The fact that they have neglected to do so, or even to provide a link to another page that goes into more detail (remember why the web was invented, anyone?), makes their motives clear. They are attempting to intimidate schools (specifically, but in general anyone that accepts donations of this sort) to refuse any machine that is donated in such a way as to enable the donator to reuse any (Windows) OS that came with it. That, in turn, will reduce the number of people who can do so, thus forcing them to buy machines that come with Windows pre-installed (or else, a "naked" PC and a seperate copy of Windows)
Incidently, I believe that MS would probably have a very hard time making such a licence agreement stand up in court, but that doesn't really matter. Do you have the time and money to fight it out with them? No, nor do I, and nor does anyone else I know.
Re:What a crock (Score:4, Interesting)
And the worst part about it is that they're doing it by making vague legal statements that threaten and coerce schools into doing MS's bidding. Schools have a tough enough time getting funding for things like new computers - now they're expected to turn away free gifts because these gifts aren't in full compliance with MS's virulent OS license? Do Macs require you propagate their OS with a Mac machine?
It just seems like with all the resources MS has, it could do better than making vaguely threatening statements towards schools that are just trying to make ends meet. Oh wait, I forgot, there's a link to MS's Academic Volume "discount" at the bottom of the page. Scare the school admins by making them think "crap, are all our computers licensed?" and then conveniently provide 'em with a link where they can get kosher again, for a price. Very nice, indeed.
Have mod points, would rather post rants. D'oh!
Site licenses? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I just find it funny... (Score:3, Interesting)
Once again, this is merely self-serving propaganda that attempts to defraud educational administrators into believing that it's illegal for them to accept a machine without a properly licensed copy of WinDOS on it.
Hm (Score:4, Interesting)
Microsoft cares, really (Score:4, Interesting)
Says:
We like the idea of you donating, but we really don't want to donate ourselves. We do care, we really do. But remember an undocumented computer is worse than no computer.
-Sean
Re:This is Quite Ridiculous (Score:3, Interesting)
So, play around with your hardware and when windows won't boot, then you're supposed to be free...
About "legally required" (Score:5, Interesting)
If you say that something is the law, and it isn't, the tenant can sue you for treble damages.
If you don't de-lead your house, and you let children under six live there, and you say to the tenant, "Oh, I'm exempt from de-leading because of this special provision / grandfather clause", then the tenant can sue you for misrepresenting the law.
So, I'm tempted to wonder if Microsoft can legally dole out legal advise that is prima facie incorrect and misleading. I would suggest the Microsoft's legal department take a look at the FUD for liability purposes.
If it can happen to me, it should be able to happen to Microsoft.
Re:With regard to WinXP (Score:5, Interesting)
And What Pray Tell Is The Origional PC? (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Take a machine install windows on it.
2) Take machine of #1 apart, evenly divide parts into two piles.
3) Put enough extra parts into each pile to make a complete machine.
4) Reassemble the 2 machines.
Now, which machine is the origional one? The one that got the hard drive, but not the processor? The one that got the floppy? Or have you just created 2 liscenses since each machine has equal claim to being the origional machine. This posture on the part of M$ is legally dubious, counter-productive and a total crock.
My email to Microsoft... (Score:4, Interesting)
I have a question. A couple of years ago I purchased a computer with Windows NT preinstalled, and the first thing I did was reformat the hard drive and install Linux instead. I have purchased a new computer, and I would like to donate my old machine to a local high school's computer club.
I noticed on your website (http://www.microsoft.com/education/?id=DonatedCom puters) that you state,
"It is a legal requirement that pre-installed operating systems remain
with a machine for the life of the machine. If a company or individual
donates a machine to your school, it must be donated with the operating
system that was installed on the PC."
I do not even have the backup disks that came with my computer. I deleted Windows as soon as I received the machine, implicitly rejecting your EULA. Moreover, the computer club wishes to run Linux on this machine.
Therefore, can I not donate the machine that I own to the computer club? As far as I can reason, by completely removing Windows from it and destroying the associated documentation I have removed any Microsoft-related control over this machine.
Please clarify this for me.
Sincerely,
Brian Poi
Re:What a crock (Score:3, Interesting)
What you say is true and all, but from what I've heard, the situation in our public schools is more complicated that just having sufficient free hardware and money to buy software.
That is, the biggest real, practical problems with computers in schools have to do with
- Set up, installation, maintenance.
- Training (not the kids, but the teachers)
so, if I might be so bold, a very good way to do something positive rather than just complain about the Borg is for Free Software advocates to volunteer their time at their local public school to help out with those tasks. Maybe your LUG could help to organize such an effort so no single person gets overwhelmed.If you go in with the attitude of being helpful, setting up proxy web caches, and, yes, even helping to filter pr0n, maybe showing teachers how to show students how to setup a simple webpage, etc, you can do more for the sake of free software and the long term interests of the IT industry in general than either donating 50 obsolete PCs or griping on Slashdot.
Should Read: (Score:2, Interesting)
Is the computer crippled - ie. Does it have Windows installed?
How much admin overtime will you have to pay for the bugs to be sorted out so you can get these Windows machines working?
Will your teachers or students need counselling after they use Windows?
If you feel it is in the best interest of your school to accept the donated PCs, make sure that the hardware donation does not include Windows. Not using windows on a PC is not just a great benefit - it is your right.
Hmm... (Score:2, Interesting)
What about pr0n? (Score:2, Interesting)
Seriously Microsoft makes themselves look like asses and I'm glad we got resources like slashdot to expose their idiotic ways.
I took that test. (Score:1, Interesting)
"Q: How skilled are you with databases (rank 1-5)?" Comment to friend: "Gee, I'm a little rusty with my MySQL."
"Q: How often do you make webpages (with programs like Microsoft Frontpage)?" Comment to friend: "Well, I'll say 'Never.' I prefer Vim 6.0, myself..."
All in all, it was a dumb and poorly-designed survey. Technically, all the students had to do it. But, as our school receives most of our *nix-running computers from generous non-Microsoft business donors, we didn't feel like we owed them many favors. In fact, under "Other Comments," I bitched about how it was a stupid waste of time.
Microsoft would fail any Freshman Class (Score:2, Interesting)
By the way, the issue in the federal courts would have been settled long ago if they would define what an Operating System is. Last time I checked, an OS is the core program (kernel) that manages computer resources and scheduling. Maybe the DOJ and the States should get Tannenbaum to testify and explain that Windows Media Player, (And the Desktop for that matter) are APPLICATIONS and NOT part of an Operating System, nor that they ever could be. And while we are at it, we should address the definition of a computer as a MODULAR platform that can be assembled from its component parts.
And by the way, perhaps schools should get in the habit of accepting donations of computer parts and avoid the whole discussion.
Funny we didn't do that... (Score:1, Interesting)
I don't believe that they wanted to run the risk of data being sent out on the drives nor licensing issues with the big bad MS over our site-licensed copy of NT 4.0. Also our company name and logo was inserted all over the place on a default Ghost build. We didn't really have the ability to reghost the computers and left that task to the recycling company. We also washed our hands clean of the computers when the recycling company took them off our hands. A full inventory tracking serial numbers was performed to ensure all computers were donated or destroyed.
When the machines were bought, the copies of Win95/98 that shipped with them were given away still in the shrink wrap. (Back when MS actually shipped an OEM copy of Win95/98 full install that was not able to perform an upgrade. Now they just ship the license and the OEM bundles a system restore disk. This sucks because I hate the OEM builds as they are usually complete crap. I want a generic installation that I have full control over. I've actually paid full price for a Windows OS just so I'd have an actual MS CDROM! This on top of the same OS coming on the computer from the OEM that I paid for in the purchase price.) They were supposed to be disposed of but employee's were walking away with arm fulls of CD's with authentic and valid license codes. We immediately dropped a network card into each one and ghosted them from the network with a consistent office build of NT 4.0 with all the software, patches and engineering changes included.
The powers that be even declared that employee's were not allowed to take old hardware that was being donated or discarded. Something to do with liability issues.
This is getting really really really stupid. Makes me wish we could run Linux on workstations, just to avoid the stupid licensing bullshit.
Re:Wait a couple of days? Auggh! (Score:3, Interesting)
I've no doubt Microsoft is more than capable of nefariousness, but I don't think this site is a case of that. I think this is just incompetence disguised as valid legal mumbo-jumbo. I'm still convinced the statement about owning licensed software would not be there if this site had passed by the eyes of at least one upper-management PHB or legal-type before being put up for public consumption. Microsoft may be malicious, but that just doesn't strike me as an admission Microsoft would make even on its most malevolent day. It pulls the rug out from under their entire business model.
But I'm just one guy, so what do I know? :-)