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Journal Allen Zadr's Journal: Unions Busted 16

Journal by Allen Zadr

NorthWest Airlines, the Pilots' Union and the Flight Attendants' Union have but one day left to reach a contract agreement before the Bankruptcy court appoints an agreement for them.

Some folks may remember that the NorthWest Mechanics were on Strike before the bankruptcy, and they got no support from the Flight Attendants or Pilots... none. The Mechanics jobs were all permanently outsourced, and once the last union member finally gets a job elsewhere - the NorthWest portion of the union will have no purpose, and will likely dissolve. So, whatever the Pilots and Flight Attendants get - because of their lack of support earlier - I could care less. But this brings us to the stepping stone, maybe the start of a trend.

Unions are now useless. Where once upon a time, if workers went on strike, nobody could ever take their place. This was, in part, a practical matter of logistics. Now, it's A-OK for companies facing a strike to outsource the entire department. If this is the case... if this is really so easy ...then what's a union worth?

Not 30 years ago, unions were considered important because of the way workers were being treated. Since then, there are more federal laws (and OSHA), but these alone have not kept up with the protections that a union were, until recently, able to offer.

So, if the US government is going to leave companies a way out of dealing with Unions, then is there really a use for Unions anymore? Will the sweat shops come back?

Most important to me... if you think Unions are not necessary, why? If you think Unions are still viable, why? Anybody got some ideas of what should be done to stall (or speed) the process? Otherwise, if you have some reasons that I'm just full-of-crap, please, let me know.

This discussion was created by Allen Zadr (767458) for no Foes, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Unions Busted More

Unions Busted

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  • The sweat shops have already returned, but there is no outcry... because they pay well. Woe be it though to any middle class man who looses his job and is unable to find another.

    • Yet, a sweat shop pays less than the equivelant Unionized job.

      How many "micro" factories get busted up in Southern California every couple of years, using mostly illegal immigrant labor?

  • In the olden days they had the Mafia running them , any filthy Scab would get their kneecaps broken .
    We need more moral upstanding Mob bosses to take their cut .
    Other than that , unions seriously need to start inter-union co-operation again . You will get nailed to the wall if you don't have support. Also workers rights in the USA need a serious reworking

    • The mid to late 80s did mark the end of both, in more ways than one. With the constant dividing of unions into smaller, special purpose organizations between 95 and 00, individual labor "labels" lost a lot of power, too. Perhaps the death knoll was when Hoffa, Jr. got control of the Teamsters (like his dad before him - bringing a Mob name (though not the backing) back into Organized labor.

      Cooperation could be key - but with more and more "consulting" companies - which are, by definition -- not Union j

      • Indeed unfortunately .. but if they can't make their routes then they have a problem .. you would need all workers of that type to strike .. if all the Pilots in the country strike a resolution would come within a few minutes
  • I think it's more the unions themselves, than evil Pres. Reagan, that's killing them off.

    Good things about unions:

    1) Would prevent occasional-to-rare incidents like Walmart's large-scale pressuring of hourly employees to work overtime for free. Being in the IT field, I'm pressured to work overtime on my dime all the time, but I'm salaried, so I guess I deserve it. ?

    Bad things about unions:

    1) They push for benefits/benefit levels that are anachronistic (e.g. who gets pensions anymore, and who isn't contribut

    • Sadly, Wal-Mart is merely large scale... the mis-treatment of employees is common, including I.T.

      Even without the threat of outsourcing, I.T. would never unionize, due to the perception by it's work-force that "IT" is "special", and that our skills are "not just a commodity". Thirty years on, and, well, IT skills are a commodity, and IT workers are wholesale being treated as such. Now, along with the constant threat of outsourcing - it's too late for labor organizing to do any good.

      Overall, there a

      • Anything involving technical problem solving is not a commodity (as much as PHB's wish it to be/treat it as such). This was never made so clear to me before since the last year or so, when my sister and then my father each came down with things that, while not rare, were not common. Many doctors and months went by while it was failed to be diagnosed. They're just now treating my dad's real problem, and my sister had to take leave from work and check herself into the Mayo Clinic for a week to get hers figure
    • The unions just pressured Maryland politicians into passing a law in MD required any employer with more than 10,000 employees in the state to spend a minimum of 8% of its revenue on health care.

      There is exactly ONE employer in MD with >10K employees: Wal-Mart.

      Wal-Mart employees DO NOT WANT to unionize - they vote on it periodically and consistently refuse to unionize. So the unions must punish Wal-Mart. They got this law passed, knowing full well that only Wal-Mart would be impacted by it.

      It's a sleazy
      • The unions just pressured Maryland politicians...

        Make that "Democrat politicians" -- the article I read indicated that it was along party lines (and overriding the Republican governor's veto). But then no one's suprised by this.

        And apparently it was the unions along with Walmart's chief competitor, the Giant Foods grocery chain, that backed the bill. That's a big business's (they're a division of a Dutch retail giant, I read) wet dream to get custom legislation to attack your only significant competitor.

        I'd
  • We can argue about whether we need Unions for improving the lives of workers. The larger issue is this: With today's world-wide economy, a company can outsource pretty much anyone who does anything. A strike doesn't have the economic impact it used to have.

    So Unions are dying. I hope the early ones left us with a government infrastructure which can protect the working American. Having observed the behavior of OSHA and other such protective agencies, I have to admit that I'm scared. Our bureaucrat class

    • You've broadened many of the points that I am looking at here, and I thank you for that.

      Pensions and Social Security hold the same place in my mind. If you cut pensions, you are screwing with someone's entire life. If you promise a pension to a teenager in 1960, now is not the time to take it away from them. Said employee never thought they'd have to worry about retirement planning. Social security isn't quite the same. Nobody thinks it'll take care of 100% of their retirement plans, but everyone e

      • Standardizing penalties for malpractice of healthcare is actually everything that is wrong with the system today. It's not about public availability. After all, Commercial Drivers, ships captains, and airline pilots all have standards of conduct and penalties for misconduct. They carry people's lives in thier hands just as a doctor does. Insurance policies for these professions are all higher, but not anywhere near what most MD insurance policies look like.

        As for pensions, I have one. I know of what yo

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