Running Multiple OSes on Macs?

raist_online asks: "My boss has just received a new iBook and asked me to sort out a multi-OS install. I'll admit to being a PC hardware person primarily. If it was a PC-based machine I'd install Linux as a base system, then put Executor on for Mac emulation and VMWare for other PC hosted OS's, but I'm sure there must be a better way to handle the Linux / Mac thing with OSX around (I'm just not sure what that is) and I know that VMWare only runs on PC processors (Intel and Athlons). So, what do you suggest? Yellow Dog or Mandrake Linux? OSX or Executor or what? Is there a virtual PC I can use? For our research, the more operating systems we can get onto this one machine, the better!"

Virtual PC

[TTop]

Virtual PC [connectix.com] will run both Linux and Windows flavors in a Mac "VM" so to speak. I haven't used it myself, but I've read that it's pretty nice.

Re:Virtual PC

[Catiline]

I didn't use it myself, but I sat next to a coworker who did. Coupled with a few other minor applications (like SMB filesharing) it let them use all the software we had in our (otherwise) exclusively Windows network. Basically, it emulated the CPU and hardware of a x86 system and called the Mac functions where applicable. Best as I can remember, the only issue was a very slight hit in speed.

Re:Virtual PC

[TTop]

Here's the Wired review [wired.com], sorry I couldn't find the link earlier... a couple highlights:

Virtual PC Is Virtually Perfect
...
VPC 5 takes it one step further and will run up to 11 different operating systems on your Mac all at once --- providing you have OS X as one of those operating systems.

YDL

[booradley215]

YDL comes with a host to run MAC Classic OS inside of Linux. MaconLinux or some such thing.

It depends, but you have options

[gordguide]

The first thing you need to do is create separate virtual partions. This makes everything that comes next easier.

OSX on one, OS9 on the other, Linux on the rest is one way to go.

A lot of Linux/UNIX can run in OSX, including Xwindows.

Virtual PC is a reasonable option if you need Windows compaibility. Go with YellowDog Linux (or Mandrake, Debian, FreeBSD, etc) if you don't.

Some HD space would be nice, but not absolutely essential.

I currently have OSX/OS9/YDL 2.1(2.4.10 kernel) running native and Win95/98/XP running via Virtual PC5 (connectix). Works fine.

Re:It depends, but you have options

[gordguide]

A quick check on Google reveals this simple quotable, from O'Reily:

"... XFree86 was available for the Macintosh platform long before the release of Mac OS X. Various flavors existed for MkLinux, LinuxPPC, and FreeBSD for the Macintosh. Although the underlying core architecture of Mac OS X, the Darwin kernel, is FreeBSD based, no X Window server was provided. ..."

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/mac/2001/07/17/x fr ee86_install.html

Have you Googled today?

[nadie]

As usual, a simple search on google turns up lots of links. Like this [www.mget.nl] which describes a "Linux installation on an Apple iBook" as a triple boot system with Mac OS 9, Mac OS X, and Debian Linux. You then run your PC emulator in OS 9.

Debian + Mac OS (9, X, or both) install guide

[raulmazda]

http://people.debian.org/~branden/ibook.html [debian.org]

Multiple OS Options

[catdevnull]

YellowDog is a pretty good dist. of linux.
It might be a bit tricky to install. Pay close
attention to the instructions.

Look at MOL (Mac-On-Linux) and some
other options.

For multiple boot, "YABootLoader" is pretty
cool. Similar to LILO on WinTel boxes, you'll
get an OS menu and their respective keystrokes. I think it was something like:
M for MacOS 9.x
X for MacOS X.x
L for Linux

Think long and hard about your partition scheme before you get started.

I recommend this:

1) Boot from a MacOS 9.2.x CD and wipe
the drive with drive setup.
2) When partitioning the drive, do it like this:
(in this order on a 20 GB drive)
10 MB for Boot Loader (double check instr)
256 MB for MacOS 9
6 GB for MacOS X
(check min. requirement)
Whatever's left or min requirement) for
Linux install (use pdisk during install
to partition for /, swap, home, opt, etc. )
3) Install MacOS 9 first
4) Install Mac OS X
5) Boot into OS 9, install YDL
6) Double check instructions for YABootloader.

There's VPC for Windows stuff.

It works pretty well once you get it going.
It's kind of a pain in the ass to install it
if you don't read the READMEs.

RTFM is the rule.

Re:Multiple OS Options

[GMontag451]

For an iBook, you don't need YABootLoader. Open Firmware has a bootloader in the boot rom. All you have to do is hold down option during boot up. It will bring up a graphical menu of all the viable "kernels" (for the lack of a better term).

Re:Multiple OS Options

[Hadlock]

would the powerbook g4 have a similar ability?

Re:Multiple OS Options

[GMontag451]

Yes, it should. All New World Macs (ones with the Mac OS ROM on the hd instead of in firmware) will have this ability. All Macs that have been inroduced after the first iMac are New World.

Wired story on Virtual PC

[shmert]

Here. [wired.com]
Has some really useful features, such as disk-safe undo that isn't available on windows.

I especially like the tagline:
With the advent of this new version, PC users have no problem crossing over to the Mac. It's one thing to tell PC users that a Mac is better, but to show them that even a PC is better when it runs on a Mac really drives the point home.

More options

[Red_Winestain]

OpenBSD [openbsd.org] works well on PPC Macs. It can co-exist with Mac OS. Of course, there's always NetBSD [netbsd.org], which runs on pretty much everything.

If installing Linux, I suggest Debian [debian.org] GNU/Linux. I've had better luck with their distro on PPC Macs than other distributions. (Maybe I'm just more used to apt than RPM.)

You might also want to check out MacOnLinux [maconlinux.org], which lets you run MacOS on top of Linux.

Finally, there's always Darwin and X Windows!

Might one ask why?

[Toe, The]

Partially out of curiosity and partially because it could result in better answers to your question... why does your boss want a kajillion OSes?

With multiple partitions, she/he could boot into any OS. The advantage is that each OS would run at full power, the disadvantage is that all Windows and many Unix flavors would be unavailable.

With VirtualPC, they could run pretty much any OS. And they could have a multitude of OSes running in different windows at the same time. Last VPC I used was version 2, which was good. Version 5 is supposed to be phenomenal.

But there could be different options which would be more appropriate depending on what he/she is trying to accomplish. Is this just a power trip, or is there a serious reason for this?

yellow dog is nice

[qurob]

I'm running MkLinux, so I use BootX. There's YaBoot too.

YDL or SuSe

[spamkabuki]

I'm running MacOS/YDL dual boot on an iMac that I fished out of the trash. Install was painless. Runs nicely.
I would also check out SuSe for PPC. I've recently installed SuSe 7.3 on my Vaio laptop and really like it much better than RH. If you purchase the SuSe distro, you get some pretty good docs/manuals that your boss might find handy. I think these are better than what I've seen so far from YDL. Providing him with some resources may mean that you'll have less support/hand-holding to do.

will wine work on ydl?

[windchill2001]

If i install Yellowdog linux on a mac, would i be able to run windows applications inside wine? If so then you could have linux, OSX, and the windows of your choince running at the same time. Is this possible? will it work?

Re:will wine work on ydl?

[GMontag451]

No, this won't work. WINE Is Not an Emulator. It is just an implementation of the Windows API. It will only run on x86 systems. I guess it could run on a PPC system with a re-compile, but it would only run Windows PPC binaries, in other words, nothing. WINE is similiar to something on PPC Linux called MOL, or Mac On Linux. It is an implementation of the classic Mac API. But again, it will only run on PPC architecture.

Re:will wine work on ydl?

[jgrider]

it would only run Windows PPC binaries, in other words, nothing

Hold on there... WinNT DOES exist for the PPC architecture (granted, rs6k's not macs) but windowsPPC does exist - a WINE port would not be trivial, either. Is this perhaps what your boss wants to work on? :)

VMWare

[grundy]

You mentioned VMWare in the question and I just wanted to point out something for anyone that doesn't know. VMWare virtualizes PC hardware, it won't run on a PPC. VirtualPC was mentioned before and that seems to be the accepted PC on Mac emulation solution.

don't mod me down yet

[Hadlock]

i've searched the web over, but haven't been able to find anything on this particular tid bit of information. how is pc gaming on macs via virtual pc 5 (or 4)? specifically, how is counterstrike in software mode? i doubt 3d acceration would work, but if i could get 25-30 fps software mode in 800x600, that would be the main convincing factor in buying that Ti powerbook g4 i've been eyeing since just before christmas for college. so i guess the questions are as follows:

1) does it run directXapps (halflife)
2)how many frames per second will I be seeing if it does work?

Re:don't mod me down yet

[Anonymous Coward]

i had the same idea. i installed vpc 4 on my g4 400 to play counterstrike on. when it would load, and when it would display correctly, i got like 3 fps in software mode :( so i'm keeping around an athlon 500mhz just to play CS on when i move up to canada. it would have been SOOOOO nicer to have gotten vpc to work.

vpc 1 or 2 iirc used 3DFX cards to speed up the rendering, but hardware accelerattion was removed in 3 or 4. :(

but if thats all thats holding you back from getting a TiBook, get it anyway. they're excellent machines and OSX is sweet.