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Journal tomhudson's Journal: Would you pay this idiot lawyer's bill? 21

Journal by tomhudson

http://theconsumeronline.com/cms/node/9

And yes, I name the lawyer. Feel free to comment there ...

Tomorrow, I'll see if I have time to start on the first wiki posts - I want to do a series on statutory relief vs judicial discretion, laches, tolling, unclean hands and bad faith, and what is called "prescription" under the civil code (its "sort of like" a combination of the statute of limitations and acquired rights).

Not just definitions of terms - anyone can do that. Rather, how you'd use these concepts when preparing to fight/defend yourself.

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Would you pay this idiot lawyer's bill? More

Would you pay this idiot lawyer's bill?

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  • There is no amount of time allotted to any of the items ... just a list of "services", without the time allotted or the individual amounts charged

    Tut tut. All our bills are fully itemized (date, time spent, rate, and a mini-pargarpah for each line item), although we charge by the half-hour.

    He is billing for services that he was ordered not to do.

    Not good. If he was worth his salt, he'd remove those items

    He failed to do what he was hired and instructed to do.

    Can't say this is unknown to me -

    • Shitty lawyers end up driving business to the good ones.

      QFT. Also lucrative is cleaning up after clients decide NOT to use a lawyer and make a mess of it - DIY will kits, contracts, etc...

      BTW, original post's idea for a website is interesting, but could cause trouble. As the post says, anyone can provide analysis - the trick is giving advice on HOW to do things. Well, that's also kind of the very definition of the difference between providing legal information (which anyone can do) and providing legal a

      • Part of the idea is to goad the bar associations into trying to "take action." There ae millions of lawyers in the world, and we need to get rid of the worst of them. Good lawyers won't worry about competition, either from software or from people banding together to help each other.

        A good example of an area where lawyers are pretty much not needed is patent applications. Read 50 patents in areas similar to what you're applying for, and you'll be able to write a patent yourself. I have a friend who did mo

  • I only saw the questions listed, but... Have you already made a complaint and had it rejected? Did you take it up with the bar association? As an aside, all the firms at which I've worked have billed in 6 minute increments, so you could do .1, .2, and so forth, and then don't overcharge. I believe that there are mechanisms for contesting a bill which fall well short of setting up a website.

    Now, knowing you, as I only do via this online realm, it wouldn't surprise me if all the other remedy's have been

    • The local bar is useless. You have to understand that bar associations are for the bar members, not the public. The same as a limited warranty protects the manufacturer, not the consumer.

      I've seen this sort of billing inflation before. Its time that people have a place to complain, one that is searchable, so that when they look up a lawyer on the net, they can be warned ahead of time.

      I'll be sending him a demand letter sometime next month, and, depending on his response, take it from there.

  • To me right now. I'm currently suing my ex-fiancée for money I loaned her during our relationship. She also can't afford to keep up with payments on a jointly-owned car, and has defaulted on a student loan I consigned for her, leaving me to make the last 14 monthly payments, yet somehow she managed to retain a lawyer for the hearing. Now that an attorney is involved, I'm left wondering if I need one as well. I'm almost expecting to lose without an attorney representing me, but for what I'd potentia

    • Since she's hired a lawyer, delay is your friend. It gives you time to get your ducks in a row, do the research you need to do, etc. Also, now that she has a lawyer, you can make demands through him, helping run up the bills.

      For example, check to see if your jurisdiction allows for the service of motions via fax to her lawyer. I served 2 motions last week, one to compel cooperation in terms of scheduling witnesses, etc., and one to demand the last 10 years tax returns. Also, since I also sued the govern

      • Also, now that she has a lawyer, you can make demands through him, helping run up the bills.

        That was my next thought after "oh shit, this is going to get dragged out now," and "gee, my chances are slim now that she has an attorney." Unless she's convinced someone she knows to cover the expense of the lawyer for her, she must have gotten one to do pro bono work as a favor. She does have some political connections through the local Republican party. Either way, I'm sure her access to free counsel has a

        • If you're going through small claims, keep in mind that the rules of conduct are much more relaxed.

          Questions I would have:

          1. In terms of the $8k limit, is there any way to break out the claims into 2 or more separate actions? It seems to me that the student loan should be one action, and the car another one. In fact, maybe the car should be 1 claim for each payment.
          2. If the car is jointly owned, then there's a problem with both title and insurance. Whose name is on the title? Who is paying the insurance? W
          • Answers:

            1. The suit I currently have pending is neither for the car, nor the student loan. During our relationship, I loaned approximately $5500 to my ex for a college tuition bill, another $450 for a training class for work, and another $3000 to settle a debt with a creditor. I know I was an idiot for loaning her the money in the first place, but especially for not having a written contract for repayment. So, I basically only have a verbal agreement, for which she can lie in court and say does not ex

            • "The attorney I consulted with told me I could not sue for payments I've made on her student loan, which I now know may not have been accurate. Regardless of the disposition of the current suit, I was still going to sue her for the payments I've had to make on the student loan, in a separate suit down the road."

              Anyone can sue anyone for anything. She might argue that, while living together, the money is part of the "pool" of "family resources", but once there's a split (or if you were never living toget

              • Anyone can sue anyone for anything. She might argue that, while living together, the money is part of the "pool" of "family resources", but once there's a split (or if you were never living together), then its like any other loan.

                While I did cosign for the student loan while we were living together, all of the payments I've had to make were after she split. I'd assume that would make suing to recover these payments fair game.

                That's also an interesting point about the "family resources" aspect of it.

                • "Speaking of which, I was the one that made all the deposits for the banquet hall and photographer, which I lost outright when we decided to postpone the wedding."

                  Sounds like it was a wise idea in the end ... I know someone who cancelled their wedding the day before. Now THAT was a mess! Catering, hall, etc., all down the drain. My suggestion was to turn it (the hall, catering, etc) into an outing for a homeless shelter, and at least get a charitable deduction out of it. Of course, with only a few hours

                  • Ain't them thar intarweb tubes mah-vel-ous?

                    Absolutely!!! I thank you for this information. This actually helps me a great deal.

                    Her attorney may call into question the timeliness of my suit and jurisdictional limits for the ~$5500 tuition payment. I fully expect him to assert that the 2-year statute of limitations has expired, plus the fact that at the time the actual payment was made I was living in a different district within the county and she was living in an entirely different county. The paym

                    • Small claims rules are more informal. You don't nheed the exact date and time - as a matter of fact, you're more credible if you're not able to recite from rote exact details. People wouldn't normally be able to recall the exact date and time of everything that happens to them, and anyone who claims otherwise is not very credible. The week is fine. Think of how many people are married, and don't remember the date ... or their spouse's birthday ...

                      It will boil down to two things - who is more credible, an

                    • It will boil down to two things - who is more credible, and what is reasonable and just.

                      Unless her attorney seriously coaches her, and even if he does, my ex may get herself into trouble with this. She tends to run at the mouth and offers too much information sometimes. I guess there is a disconnect with her, where most people would censor themselves or deem what they wanted to say inappropriate and hold their tongue. This mental filter doesn't exist with her. I'm hoping that even if she does go into

                    • I think you're worrying too much :-) They'll either settle, or they won't. If they won't, they'll probably lose in court. They know this is not the sort of case to make a "federal case" out of - there's too much downside in terms of embarrassment, and the amount isn't enough to justify it. Just go to court, say your piece, present your evidence and arguments, and any witnesses, and win.

                      If a friend is to submit a written statement, they still have to be there to attest to it. This is because the other sid

                    • OK, thanks for all the information you've provided. I do have some specific questions on how to go about compelling the defendant to provide documentation which she has. I'm assuming I could have her served with a subpoena to produce any and all documentation she has on the tuition bill and payment, receipts from the training class, and possibly credit card statements for the account I settled? If you wouldn't mind, can you please email me at the address in my profile when you have a chance?

                    • Normally on a subpoena it has a phrase something like "and all relevant papers and documents."

                      However, since you're goint to small claims, you'll have to be more specific.

                      I'll see what I can do over the upcoming weekend. I should have some free time then.

  • Hey all, being in legal myself (the IT side) I can tell you all this when looking for a *GOOD* lawyer:

    http://www.lexpert.ca/directory/ [lexpert.ca]

    That's the final word. If they don't show up on there, don't use them. And if you're looking for a practice area, you can search that way too.

    And... they're not all crooks. Certain practice areas have a tendancy to be a little more shady than others.

    • "they're not all crooks. Certain practice areas have a tendancy to be a little more shady than others"

      The profession itself is riddled with greed, conflicts of interest, a lack of transparency, lack of end-user accessability, dishonesty and a general lack of accountability.

      It takes a LOT to get a lawyer disbarred. They'll probably be dead before the process finishes, rendering it moot - plus, disbarment doesn't get you anything in the way of compensation.

      Maybe we would be better if we were to take th

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