Re:From the Female Perspective - It's Pretty Easy (Score 1)

Hello, I think that both sides have a very good points. I am a female, and it's not easy. But i do think that both sides are to blame for this. I am a part of a variety of Women in IT/Engineering groups (both as a comitee memeber and as a general member) and generally i am of the belief that although it is difficult for us to deal with the issues that we have, we do very little to help ourselves. Generally every meeting of these groups is a winging session where some old, bitter woman gets up and winges her head off about how there are all these things that men need to do to make things easier for us, and usually they are not bad ideas, but ffs why is it that not a single guy is in the room listening - because they don't get invited. So how exactly are they supposed to understand the issues like the fact that many women don't have a husband that can take the time to do the things that they do. Quite often it is a simple fact of finances. It is much better for the collective household budget that the guy stays at work as they are paid more. Now many men are starting to realise that they would like to see their kids at their first football match, or that dance performance, and hopefully more will as the society is suffering from the lack of male rolemodels (which is a completely different issue all together) But then there is the typical female mentality in an organisation. Just because we are a minority does not mean that we should get ANY special treatment. At the place that i am currently employed with the girls organise a "Girls lunch" with the excuse of "We're a minority so we deserve it." I have decided to boycot this lunch as i choose to not distinguish myself as part of a minority and go to lunch with the guys. The other females in the office typically go to lunch on their own, sit at their desks to eat it, and leave early cause they don't take the typical 1hr break to socialise with the rest of the office at lunch. But i do agree... it is difficult sitting at the lunch table with the guys. They often crack jokes and make statements that i don't particularly want to know about... but i can make them suffer, cuase how many things can you think of that a guy REALLY doesn't want to know about... i can think of pleanty. On the other side, i definatelly do agree, even if i say that i don't distinguish myself as a minority i do understand taht i am one...there is no question there, and as many disadvantages as it bears there are many advantages. When i stay late one night in a week it gets noticed a lot more then when a male colegue stays late. I guess it may be because it's out of the ordinary. And the whole "what do they expect ... to have a life". I have life. I play sports, i do martial arts, i go out on the weekends. Granted i don't have kids so i don't have that responsibility, but if i did my work commitment would not change. We work in IT. there is nothing that stops me from working from home, as my office readily provides a VPN connection. If i need time off... i get it. If i do overtime i get recognised for it. There is not that much to it. And yes i do agree that overtime should not be expected to be able to get ahead, as a requirement for overtime illustrates that either you can't get you work done cause you're not good enough or because your management is s#$%t. Many of the large coorporations (unless projects are running late) expect that you dont work overtime and they frown on it as they have realised that it's not sustainable and that it decreases the quality of work taht people produce. So there are many places that women would be happy in. The things that i hate is when a mining engineer says something stupid like "I didn't sign up to this job to go flying back and forth between my family and the mines"... so did you ever read the f@#king job description. So summary: Women need to pull their heads out of their butts: we are different but we are not special. If you have issues with the place you work at, tell the people around you. Work with your team to resolve issues rather then winge behind their backs. If there is something that is stopping you from doing the things that you see are getting other people ahead then figure out what it is that you can do to compensate. And for the men: the same, pull your heads out of your butts. It's difficult for us to blend into a world that has been largely male dominted for many years. Its difficult to get through the mental barrier that stops us from thinking that we can integrate without that many issues. So offer help. If you are willing (not "you have to") help the girls out... offer a simple "if someone/something is bothering you around here, you have people that you can go to" kinda thing. We are not all backstabbing b@#tches, and many will appreciate more then you think.