They did not have the ability to deduce right and wrong on their own, no. They were told what was wrong and right by God. That's how they knew it was wrong to eat of the fruit. They disobeyed Gods command.

"Without christ all are dead. His message was clear, and painfully simple."

I am sorry. I don't quite understand you on one thing. Are you saying that the bible is saying that without Christ we are dead, as in will be buried in the ground, or as in dead, no afterlife? Just clarifying.

"The truth is simple, you and others like you have made it needlessly complex"

I don't think I made anything complex. I said, "He (Christ) came to stop a different type of death, death of the soul."

I believe this is not complex and very biblical. As Jesus was hanging on the cross one of the thieves stated he believed Jesus was who he claimed to be. (Luke 23:43) "Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Here is simplicity for you. Jesus promised an afterlife for those who put faith in him.

Or you could be stating that I am making it complex by stating that. (Making sure I don't misunderstand.) Why is that needlessly complex or complex at all? Is the thought that there may be life beyond now unfathomably complex?

I can fully understand that you that you state people believe in religion because subconsciously they don't want to accept that this is the end. I don't disagree in any sort of way. But there are people out there who do investigate. They look at things from a logical point of view. And decide that something was guiding the evolutionary process. Or initiated the creation of the universe. Or many other things. Those things could be some sort of catalyst or protein. Or our universe could just be the one of many that got it right. Or we could say some intelligence, God or not, designed things.

"All a real god would have to do is leave a monolith/video/sattelite, or permanent scientific evidence of his existence."

Not being smug, just wondering, what could God have left to prove to you that he is real. I mean specifically. Because couldn't almost anything, especially scientific evidence, just be shown to be pure science. If one believes in God, they must also believe that he created the Laws of Science. He uses those natural processes to work and therefore anything he did could be show to be just the natural processes.

"God being a perfect being could never obfuscate the truth. Am omniscient being, by definition can't fail."

Good job you read my mind. You got to poke fun at the christian. Do you feel good about yourself now? I never implied in that statement that God is infallible or that he was omniscient, I merely stated my thoughts.

"Think about this: You create a being, and you know beforehand he is going to transgress, yet thats the way you designed him."

I think the problem with this is love. God created us so he could love us. When a (good) parent has a child it doesn't matter if that child turns away from their will. The parent still loves that child. In order for God to truly love us and be loved by us he must give us free will to choose to be with him.

Would you rather a dictator of a God who forces you to accept him and praise him?

"You are an example of everything I stated to be true theology and those who engage in it: You're building more and more complex justifications and obfuscations for what should be a simple mundane matter, no one questions their own existence for instance."

I still do not see any complexity in my statements. I may have elaborated more, been more specific, but my complexity level did not increase. I hope this sentence is just misleading, you state, "no one questions their own existence for instance". I think everyone questions their existence. Well I know at least I have.

Claiming that I am making things complex does not mean that I am wrong. You didn't continue the argument we were truly having. Which is whether the bibles statement of sin make it incompatible with evolution.

You are right. My bad. He was not talking about Einstein's theory of relativity. I misunderstood. He was talking about the effect that the expansion of the universe has on time. Not Einsteins relativity where he speaks of speed and gravity. Very sorry for the mistake.

I don't believe you fully understand Christ reason for coming.

First biologically Adam was a descendant of early apes or primates. But according to the bible (the post I first replied to used it so I am assuming its ok if I do) God set Adam apart and placed him in the garden. In this garden there was something called the tree of life, which stopped death. Adam was not meant to die because God gave him something that stopped it.

Biblically speaking it was not a physical trait that separated Adam from early humanoids. But rather a "life" (neshama in Hebrew) which no other animal possessed. It was not the sin that caused Adam to die, but the fact that his sin caused him to be kicked out of the garden which contained this tree of life. Now these men, the ones who have receive neshama, would die. This is how "man" recieved the horrible "punishment of death". It wasn't that biologically they weren't to die. It was that God had separated them from the rest of the world and placed them where they couldn't die.

But that is not what Christ came to stop. Christ did not come for "death, disease and suffering". He never said he did. And if he did, he failed miserably. He came to stop a different type of death, death of the soul.

Whether you believe in an after life or not is irrelevant. The point is biblically speaking it does not say that sin caused death, disease and suffering. It made God separated people not be able to live forever. God had picked out these men to live a life different than the rest of the world. But the disobeyed and were sent back in to the would with all its terrible things. It also made death of the soul.

I really don't think God got his facts wrong. I believe that you misunderstand the bible. And understandably so. But to say that Christ came for no reason is false. He merely came for a reason which you don't believe. He came to give eternal afterlife. He came to bring personal peace in him. And he came to be a servant. Christ came because he loves us.

Well if you read through Genesis again you will see that the actually reason Adam and Eve died was because they could no longer eat from the tree of life. Genesis 3:22-23 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. This says that death came to all men. Animals could die before this, allowing for evolution. Science of God by Gerald Schroeder

I heard one Jewish man actually agree that saying it meant galactic day was total crap. He used ancient text and Einstein's theory of relative to show that 6 days = 15billion years. Good stuff. Its in the Science of God by Gerald Schroeder. Shows some who is religious that is actually intelligent.

I think the best argument for creation is presented in the Science of God by Gerald Schroeder. Actually an intelligent religious person who can support his claims. And even if it doesn't change ones thoughts. It still shows that not all people in religion are morons who just try to ignore the evidence science has given us.

I'm sixteen. There is not a single block our school has that me and my friends can't get around. Almost any web filter can be bypass by using some ssh port forwarding.

Make it minimal and easy to disable. There is no need to spend time and money just for kids to get around the blocks. Make it cheap and non-time-consuming.

I know you want blocks but seriously none of them are effective. If you blocked iChat. I would just boot into single user mode and create a new root account. Problem solved. By locking down the computer you are just distracting kids from working and making them focus on getting around the blocks you put in place to get work down.

P.S. I wish our school got us mac books. That would be amazing.