It's not for me, except that it is getting rammed down my throat.

Yes, funny how that ends up frustrating a person.

And to rub it in, it appears that Gnome has a problem with many people's worthless opinions adding up to something significant enough where they have to beg "disillusioned" users to come back.

Well, if you want to concentrate on it fine: that "piss-weak" argument *is* actually enough to consign Gnome to the dustbin of inflexible, unusable software for my usage. In the end, my metric is simple: A feature needed for "Work Utility" outweighs one for "Fluffy Chrome" any day of the week.

Gnome 2 let me set things up the way I want, New Gnome tells me that I don't know what I am doing! Screw work -- real computer users need a spiffy integration with their Google Profile.

Forgive me for being less than impressed....

The Gnome Project's true value is as a cautionary tale about knowing your user base. The Gnome foundation badly misjudged who would use their stuff and were so sure that they'd tap into millions of normal users that they didn't mind being really insulting to the users they lost in the process.

Today's articles seem to admit they are not reaching "normal users doing things normal users do" and since they need some sort of user base back, they must appeal to the ones they drove away. Really, it's right there in the titles: "How GNOME 3.14 is winning back disillusioned Linux users" and "Open Source GNOME 3 Desktop Environment Wins Back Fans."

I decided to post just to point out that the "features" that are supposed to win their users back are superficial at best and they do even get close to the core of their problems.

Reading tip 101: Typically the last thing in a list occupies that position because it is generally not as important to the main argument as what came before.

Nice to see the primary article admit that the launch was immature I guess.

Once again, the media around Gnome seems to display tone-deafness. The third article gave not a single specific other than Linus uses it though he still has problems. The first article lists all the "improvements" that are supposed to lure me back into the fold. Let's see how they stack up.

FTFA:

1) Classic mode offers "enough familiarity" -- at this point XFCE does what I need it to do. I don't need to use Gnome's idea of how the "old folks" used to work. I heard enough times that "classic" was going to die anyway -- too much risk in switching to something with no clear future.

2) "Weather app" -- okay. Yeah that increases my productivity!

3) Evince has less interface -- great. You guys do realize it was the LACK OF CONTROLS on your apps that drove me away, right?

4) Multitouch support -- worthless to me, no touch interfaces, don't want them.

5) Photo app gained support for Google accounts -- so it reached feature parity with my smartphone. Yay!

6) "Captive portal handling" -- this was an actual problem? I don't recall every failing in that task.

Are you kidding me? That adds up to a lot of shined poo.

Neither article answered a single question I actually would have:

Can I configure it simply without third party plugins?
Can I kill the hot corners? In fact, the whole "Fisher Price Activities" screen?
Can I set unchangable defaults on the launcher instead of it deciding incorrectly what I think is important.
Can I change the terminal and screen layout so my 30" monitor is not trying to make one huge xterm all the time?
Can I get a "heads up display" of my multiple desktops that I don't have to cycle through buttons or move the mouse to see?
Does the terminal launcher continue to assume I need just one terminal and unhelpfully bring up the last instance when I actually wanted a new one?
Does the file browser do something sane finally?
Do I still have to have a global menu?
Can I have focus follows the fricking mouse please? I have a huge legacy program that won't work if this doesn't and I am not rewriting it.

Nope. I don't see a lot of evidence from the articles that it is worth my time to come back. Gnome's new design was for intro users who wanted lots of pizzaz. They were VERY clear about how my problems were because I knew nothing about how I should use the computer. The problem is, I know what jobs I am trying to do, and Gnome just didn't work.

As opposed to where the OP wants the blame placed.

The guy has a point about his wallet. I "lost" a $10 watch (really nice looking, but a cheap birthday gift from my daughter, bought with her allowance money) on their belt. When I complained, everyone claimed ignorance and with the clock ticking and the line stopped I became aware of one interesting social feature in the security line system design: With the level of inconvencience already high, the impatience of your fellow travellers is a very effective cudgel that the TSA uses as a resource.

As I tried to plead my case I noticed the uninvolved TSA folks were playing to the crowd with how they talked and their body language -- "look guys, it's THIS guy who is gumming up the works and making you late." And I could certainly feel the love...

In the end, regardless of the sentimental value it was just a $10 watch. I think the entire affair lasted a bit under a minute and a half, but I knuckled under and the TSA thief won. I sometimes wonder how much of this was anticipated by the thief -- that at some set rate you can just snag an item of not much consequence and let the time pressure work for you...

Just remember, while you arguably benefit from their services, these people are not actually on your side here (you *are* the suspect after all) and it's not like their uniform implies any particular level of integrity.

There are only so many ways to ask "Where can I find the ANY key?" so don't be too sure you were the source of it... ;)

Total Recall had a decent plot. I guess the twist in Total Recall 2012 is going to be it really is a dream this time?

I guess I've missed that slick glossy ad campaign for Gnome3 that have surely been placed to catch all those new users. Who brings in all those hypothetical new users right now? As one of those "diehards from the 1990." I started dozens of people over the last 20 years on Linux but stopped trying when Gnome3 came out. I suddenly found my workflow disrupted and the usual open source philosophy of customization is gone -- at this point I'm not sure *I* am a good match for Linux anymore. So, since Gnome3 came out I've been watching my friends, associates and family buy Macs. If things go as Gnome3 is planned, I will be switching away from Fedora (after starting with RedHat 4.2) and to something else in the next year. Yes, I could do spins but when the trends are moving away from your usage model in the default OS it's just a matter of time till something critical will break for you. Best to transition before it becomes a crisis.

As far as clones, my local Cult of Apple members spent a lot of time teasing me by placing the Gnome 3 "System Settings" panel side by side with the OS X "System Preferences" panel. I certainly could not defend against the assertion that that feature at least was a wholesale ripoff. Perhaps you could have done better. The categories are the same, the icons look the same, only difference in the end is that the OS X panel seems to offer more options for customization. If you're keeping score I wouldn't count that as a win for Gnome either....

It does reinforce my initial impression after reading about Gnome 3.4 that after trying to adapt to 3.2 has resulted in nothing more than a massive waste of time I could have otherwise spent being productive had I jumped ship immediately upon the first performance hits. The "one task at a time" idea makes me feel like I am performing surgery with ski-gloves on when doing image processing where you are constantly flipping between an image window and menus/terminals which manipulate it. On a 30" monitor I have been fighting how silly it seems that a terminal dragged too far up becomes a 30" wide terminal. It feels unnatural to have to check the motion of the terminal and drop it several tenths of an inch from the top bar, wasting as much space as I was supposed to be saving. I guess maybe it's supposed to be fun -- goof it up and it's just like the guy's nose buzzing in Operation. I used to be able to balance my thoughts using the desktop as a way to keep an overview of my various tasks in minimized windows or iconified desktop switchers (which to me functioned kind of like a heads-up-display) but in the new Gnome, out of sight is out of mind without hands on the keyboard. I tried, with an open mind, to get with the program on the advice of Gnome advocates and out of a loyalty to Fedora which I've used since RedHat 4. But after seven months it still doesn't feel right --it's awkward and keeps me from getting things done.

Now the user experience demands that applications start placing the menu on the top bar? I guess if you run one application at a time that's a strength but I don't nor can I. I see people worried about how sloppy focus pays a penalty for this happening and I believe you've just told me that this concern is a price you're willing to pay for a user experience. In essence this is a big warning that I will end up rewriting code if I wanted to stay with gnome. I was paid to write the code, I am most certainly not going to be paid to rewrite it. I am currently paid to produce with it.

YMMV obviously, but it's a warning I cannot ignore about what Gnome's future will mean for my work...

Actually, it appears to be the final nail in the coffin as far as my love-hate relationship with Gnome goes. Yup, I tried it like everyone said and after heavy configuration 3.2 kind of works so-so for me if I hold my nose. I was hoping it would get better with a few more extensions or through cinnamon. Now this. I use sloppy mouse focus as a work-related feature in my image processing work. To lose a valuable work related feature just to get a serial-number filed off OS X clone desktop gets me off this train for good.

It now raises two other questions:

Is gnome software going to work outside of gnome if it looks for this top bar to place a menu all the time? If not, too bad for open source in general.

Is cinnamon going to be able to work around this? Obviously their alternate top menu bar will have some problems.

Due to the Gnome 3 development team I got to "try" your style. It sucked. Really. Badly.

For me that is.

I'm sure you do fine by it. If Gnome had any pretentions of being a REAL UI instead of just another low-rent apple knockoff, we'd both be able to do what we wanted.

I'll disagree A LOT. I have 10 windows open because I am working on 3-4 projects at a time. I have ~20 more minimized but their status available at a glance. I leave things going because my uptimes are 300 days+ and I work on months lnog projects collaboratively. My workspaces each have a purpose -- I don't need the software deciding when I don't need one anymore so that I waste time having to figure out what the hell it decided to do THIS time because if anything it is inconsistent.

When I return to a project, I don't want to have to move the mouse HARD LEFT AND UP then wait for the graphics do-dads to calm down the move the mouse HARD RIGHT and have to hunt for the workspace where my stuff was sitting cause it AIN'T going to be where it was last time and then wait for the graphics do-dads to twinkle again before I actually get work done.

In my obsolete desktop, I move the mouse to the desired workspace which are in FULL VIEW (with ALL my windows shown iconically ) and click once. My desktop returns, set up perfectly. My build window sits there in the corner, my coding window on one side, my testing window is ready with my reference browser is next to them and my other applications are all available. All is well and I am immediately returned to a productive state on that project -- in ONE move and ONE click.

No "revolutionary paradigm" can get that done faster. Sorry.

See, I like setting up my various tasks so that they mirror my thoughts and responsibilities and projects -- I work by SEEING my minimized windows iconified and SEEING my desktops without having to ask through some extended magic mouse-shake each and every time. At that point my desktop is an extension of my mind and thoughts. Gnome 3 is the extension of nothing. An out-of-sight, out-of-mind electronic form of ADD.
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Absolutely, you are correct. There are times when I don't want to waste precious class time talking about things that any competent student should be able to learn on their own -- you know terminology and basic concepts, simple proofs and the like. That's where the online lectures are useful. All the applications, the recent advances, the nontrivial mathematical formalism, solid in-depth examples -- I get to do that. Of course, I am proceeding under the expectation that my students actually took their education seriously and prepared BEFORE they walked through the door. Most of the time I spend the first three-four weeks teaching the first way and then after the first exam I generally have to start hand-holding because only about one in 100 students actually take the opportunity to benefit from me treating them like an adult.

This thread completely wastes its time worrying about the format of a lecture. Let's actually start with something that would truly motivate learning like a new student accountability system. I think instead of grades, classes should be evaluated by rank-ordering the performance of students in the class. Instead of an A you're given a straight percentile based on the number of students enrolled in the class who passed and your rank among them. If you fail the class by not meeting minimum standards you simply do not receive any score at all. Grade inflation is eliminated overnight. A "C" is 50% because that defines average performance among students who actually took the class seriously and met the standards. Most people should be intellegent enough to normalize scores between various schools and different programs when evaluating potential employees. You either excel, or you don't. Simple and elegant.

I note that your link talks about Khan Academy's use in Grades 5 and 7. I would think that they'd be pretty valuable resources at about that level.

We all like to brag about how smart we are individually, but I have yet to see ANYONE in twenty years who came into my hard science classroom with a finessed, finely understood self-taught understanding of my subject, even at the introductory level. Oh yes, I've seen lots of students who grandly let me know how they knew it all already and how bored they were and how I wasn't teaching them anything new. I always smile patronizingly back at them because I know how this enjoyable scenario inevitably plays out. Come test time I ask them to trivially extend upon the material and they'll fold like origami.

Guess they didn't really get it after all, Khan Lectures notwithstanding.

I'd add to the discussion that the nice yet fatal flaw in VOLUNTARY self-motivated education like that is that when something is uncomfortable, you can stop thinknig about it or gloss it over or deem it unimportant or unworthy of your attention. Your judgement on that matter is pretty much questionable at best and self delusion at worst.

Without external challenge that forces you to consider the stuff you DON'T want to consider you will NEVER grow intellectually.

It's the nature of the beast. And I cannot think of a more efficient model than the current one. Frankly I am NOT there to spoon feed knowledge into your heads. I hope you will take every opportunity to learn this stuff and if online lectures help, GREAT! If you don't want to come to my lectures, don't waste EITHER of our time. One-on-one I will discuss my subject endlessly with you and answer EVERY question you ask cause I love what I do but in the end this is YOUR education, not mine.. Crack your books, do your homework WITHOUT cop outs like Cramster (and do every problem -- I selected each and every problem for a reason) and prove to me that you're not full of crap by passing the examination which PROVES that you're not just a poser. My job is to set a standard and your job is to either meet my standard or fail.. The paper mill depends on my judgement and I'm not shy to give it.

Call me obsolete all you want if it makes you feel better, but frankly we both know the actual score on this..