Well, of course there are a range views on what sort of development folks in different parts of different metro areas want. Generally though, most folks who have actually thought about these issues (and understand that no car will actually be getting 200+ MPG even in 2015 because the numbers are based on an odd formula including battery life) will not rail against verdant suburbs.

The changes, we need are quite specific:
1)Less Exurban development
2)Making suburbs more walkable and bikeable
3)Connecting suburbs to real cities with real transit

Of course, other folks might take a harder line, but real cities that have proper development will fair best in the long term both economically and quality of life.

When you reference sanitation and the development of the subway system what you are really emphasizing is the need for robust infrastructure and forward-oriented urban planning. And no, cars to not belong in either category as they are not scalable. Certainly in a transition toward more livable and sustainable cities there is a place for you and your 80MPG car and for grid-powered cars. Just like the massive sewage system London built after the fire in 1666, cities need to address the issues of today with long-term planning, not simply an improvement in gas mileage.

I've never used delivery services, but I know they don't charge twice as much. They usually just charge a fee based on the bill, but often waive it for orders over $100. And one has to imagine they can transport ice cream; I think it would be common knowledge if they couldn't. As for milk, you're the one buying groceries once a month, so you should know how long it takes for milk to curdle. (hint: a 5 hour delivery window isn't enough in a van with environmental controls)

I think you are confusing automobiles with a rational critique of transportation policy. Your example and analogy both suck.

Just because humans have been hauling heavy items on carts (for 10,000 years no less!), doesn't mean that transportation systems for cities of >1M people should attempt to accommodate or even center policy around them. If you just think about this for a moment I hope you will believe /me/.

I just don't get the example involving 20 bags of groceries. I understand a caterer might buy food in bulk, but that is unrealistic for most non-mormon families. The point of urban planning is to create cities where families are close enough to real food that they don't need to buy 20 bags of groceries (how many carts?) at a time. But for reasonable shopping excursions, bikes can haul quite a lot. I've probably carried 80+ lbs on my road bike with panniers and backpack for bulkier items. Folks with proper bike trailers can carry more than most families usually purchase on larger grocery outings. But, there is also nothing inherently wrong with peapod-type delivery services for groceries, since they actually have a need for a huge vehicle; plus, they take many other GHG emitting cars off the road.

Who are these 'enviro wackos' you speak of? I'm sure there are a few people who fit that qualification, but if you look hard enough you can find all kinds of wackos. There are certainly many more free market wackos.

This is a common canard that appears whenever politicians spend money/create legislation in the name of the environmental boondoggle. It's always the environmentalists who are to blame, not the lobbyists and their industries who pushed through the legislation and stand to benefit from it, even if it doesn't help the environment.

Someone please mod parent down. The price of corn (and other staples) is going up because of Ethanol. Clean coal is not clean. And, WTF is 'clean air'?

who modded you? what has happened to slashdot?

-carbon taxation is a long-term approach toward reducing emissions and employment taxes

-the use of capitol injections into financial institutions is a temporary and very debatable approach toward averting economic collapse

just because you disagree with the 'how' doesn't mean the aim isn't positive (slowing global warming or avoiding economic downturn)