Disclaimer: I am a vegan and all carnivores are morons.

Wait, doesn't that make octipi morons? Logic breakdown, never mind, carry on. :-)

But seriously, don't let me catch you eating one, I'll kill you...

That's awful, pretty closer to "as bad as it can get". I hope that the protesters can manage to elicit real change in the face of such brutality but you've provided a stark example of how difficult it can be.

Looks like the pro-EU protesters are still fighting tho...

Yeah there will be some of that for sure. But even following the most pessimistic line of thinking... eventually when it gets as bad as it can get, there is always the option of revolution. In the meantime, unlike Russell Brand, I'm going to keep voting, glass-half-full style. :-)

You're probably right, it's a long play hope. You have to wait for old folks to die off, and young folks to start caring enough to vote. In my mind, it's an inevitability. Circa 2100. Any sooner is probably wishful thinking.

In the mean time, I think Kardos had good advice recommending creative commons.

before they are voted out. They may have powerful corporate backers, but these are the kinds of things that the younger generations just aren't going to put up with much longer. At least that's my hope.

You need thicker skin, too, my friend. It's not THAT hard to get help in #mythtv-users, they've helped me plenty. iamlindoro is sort of the gatekeeper screening out people who haven't done their homework. Kind of a necessary evil. But he's smart and often helpful at times too, along with many others. And it's not a simple project, the work is endless. But hang in there and chill out a bit and you'll reap the rewards of open source. Just don't expect everything to work all of the time! Part of the charm. :>

Correction: I doubt it would be possible for anyone to "not use fortified foods" in this day and age.

Now I'm in a flame war with myself... please cut off my coffee supply and mod this down to oblivion... I'm so ashamed... it was nice knowing you, karma...

I hate to keep this little flame going, Rutefoot... especially with someone with your conviction... :>

I doubt it would be possible to "not use fortified foods or supplements". I like nutritional yeast, I take a B12 once in a while. I don't take "handfuls of pills daily". I don't have to worry about "protein, omega 3 fatty acids, iron, calcium, Iodine, Zinc and who knows what else" any more than you do. Also, I don't have to worry about my cholesterol (it's 123), taking lipitor (the "best-selling drug in the world"), or any other nonsense to prevent heart disease, a major problem for die-hard carnivores. I have to worry because I don't put meat and dairy in my body, you have to worry because you do. I think I come out ahead.

If all I cared about was my health, I might not be strictly vegan... but probably close.

Anyway, you appear to have a chip on your shoulder, I'm not here to hold it against you, or act like I have all the answers. I realize my vegan commitment comes from a concern for animals beyond the "norm", and most people will never see completely eye-to-eye with me. Just sharing what works for me.

"...completely natural..."

Apparently you haven't seen many feedlots (where your lunch came from)...

It ain't always easy being vegan. But it has nothing to do with good food, that part's easy. I remember one red-faced guy arguing with me that "if we didn't eat meat, what would we do with all the cows?!?" rofl

Flame away...

Err.. with all due respect, you might want to vet your sources better. The original Oxford report was on the elderly (at higher risk of B12 deficiency), and it said "people who had higher vitamin B12 levels were six times less likely to experience brain shrinkage compared with those who had lower levels of the vitamin in their blood". Nothing about vegetarians. At all.

And it's certainly not "much more difficult" for a vegetarian to balance the food they eat. Nice FUD.

PETA's tactics are almost always sensational. It's understandable for a minority movement that tries to gain traction to initially use this strategy. Its long-term effectiveness may be questionable. But often they are trying to convince younger folks who haven't yet become hardened to the idea, so from that perspective maybe it works?