Comment My 2000000.00 worth ;-) (Score 1) 558
Here it is in a (large) nutshell:
The absolute #1 thing in home theater sound is setting it set up correctly and having a good room to put it in. The #2 thing is "first see the #1 thing". I can make a $1,000 system sound better than a $20,000 system if the expensive system is incorrectly set up. Better equipment only closes that last few percentage points of performance.
I have been into home theater for a little over ten years, and stereo systems before that. I have built up my system over the years to the point where it is really a professional-level system, or at least most of it. I don't recommend getting this equipment unless you want to spend way too much money for a totally bleeding-edge system. Yes, even no REAL Theater can touch you, but you pay allot for that last 10% of performance.
However, the post said how to get more "umph!" in your system, and what are we running. I think it helps to ask someone who has a higher-level system what a good budget-sensitive system is.
Any "high end" system is going to use separate components for everything as opposed to an all-in-one unit. But systems like these would be hard to build for less than say $6,000 - $10,000, and that's even if you get some of it used (a really good idea BTW).
You did not say if the $1500 was just for the AMP/processor or for AMP/Processor AND speakers. Look at what I would recommend at the bottom. I think what I recommend will have more meaning if you read what I have, and why I chose it. Bear with me.
Here is my system as it stands currently:
Note to other high-end people: Yes, you can argue some of these choices. I know I did.
TV (wide screen): Princeton Graphics AF30.HD, 32" HDTV (about $4,000)
http://www.princetongraphics.com/Products/Produc ts F.html
This unit has the best picture quality currently possible for NTSC (DVD/LD/VHS, etc.) of it's size and rivaled only by expensive (over $25K) projectors for HDTV.
DVD player: APEX (region free, Macrovision free) (about $180)
This DVD is not very good, but it is cheap and I can watch my Japanese region 2 imports. I am going to get a Toshiba to do high quality region 1.
Note: I also have Laserdisc, SVHS, Satellite dish, and so on, but it's not really relevant. If you want to know what these are, e-mail me.
Surround Processor: Lexicon DC-1 w/ modules for THX, Dolby Digital, DTS, etc. (about $6,000)
http://www.lexicon.com/DC1/index.html
This is basically the upgradeable PC of the surround processor world, as they come out with things like DTS ES (6.1) and DD EX, etc., I can upgrade my unit rather than replacing it. Then you get much higher quality components that get re-used. Incidentally, Lexicon actually makes the equipment that they use to transfer films to DVD, so this unit is (arguably to some) about as good as it gets. Lexicon has since come out with 2 models above this, but my money isn't burning a hole in my pocket to upgrade just yet (more inputs, better D/As). You can find this unit used on E-bay sometimes for about $3,000.
Amplifier: Outlaw Audio, 165 watts X 5 (about $1,100)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products.html
You can spend ALOT more for an AMP. But cost/vs. performance no one will mess with you. Why this type of rig sounds so much better than all-in-one systems would take awhile to explain and took me years to finally figure out through all the controversy that there is in the home theater world. But if Slashdot readers are interested in What REALLY makes the difference in all that money that is NOT just a fancy faceplate and a big name, might be worth writing for the perspective of someone who is not a crazed home-theater person might be worthwhile.
Subwoofer: BAG END Elf, 18" and 400 watts self-powered. (About $1,500)
http://www.bagend.com/
I'm surprised more people don't know about these. This is what separates the men from the boys in home theater, even if you added it to an otherwise low-end system. Again, the reasons would tie in to a much more lengthy explanation. Suffice to say, this is weapons-grade bass for home theater or even just audio (which virtually nothing can do BOTH well). These are those things you read about, you know, crack foundations, resonate human bowels, knock-out the neighbors so they can't complain, etc.). Quite a conversation piece too. Lucky for me my neighbors are deaf (not kidding), but they do tell me they "feel" something sometimes.
Speakers: All Cambridge Sound Works, about $800 worth for 5 speakers. (I have 7 though)
Yes, that's right, comparatively cheap speakers in an otherwise high-end system. Most don't believe it until they hear my system. I found that there are MANY speakers out there that are a little better, and even much better than these, but in order to get MUCH better you have to spend about $2,000 each for them rather than $200 each. So you get maybe 10% more performance for 10 times the price (or more). And remember, I am saying this from the perspective of MOST PEOPLE, not cracked-out high-end people. A wise person told me that there are about a 1000 brands of speakers out there. About 100 of them are good, so you have to say NO to 99 good speakers. Also, never decide on speakers by listening to them in the showroom. It is impossible to judge speakers this way. Only buy from a place that will let you take them home and try them first. If they won't, then they don't know how to sell speakers.
There is lots of other in-between stuff like cabling, but you could go on forever with it. I think this covers the major issues. I have friends who have systems that cost well over $100,000.00 that help me devise my opinions. It really puts things in perspective.
And now for the good (and short) part, my recommendations. To those who know anything about the equipment above, this should catch your interest. Don't worry; I'm ready to divert emergency power to my mail server for all those who disagree. Remember what they say about opinions.
Tailor the below to up to or over $1500, with speakers, and you will still do well. Remember #1 that setting it up correctly matters more than anything that you buy in home theater.
Here you go:
Processor/AMP: Onkyo (from about $500 to $3,000) take your pick, they are all good.
I have tried Yamaha, Kenwood, Pioneer, and others. But Onkyo is the all-around best in my opinion. And you don't have to take my word for it; the online reviews you can find will back me up. Oh, and BTW, SONY makes nice TVs and stuff, but they can't seem to make a stereo worth sh$... if you know what I mean. You have to buy the SONY ES units for way too much money, and then they are ONLY as good as the regular units from other brands. Other people may like them but I think they are crap.
Speakers: Cambridge Sound works. Take your pick.
Just pick out a package with the Onkyo and whatever you want to spend on speakers. And you're done.
If you want to know how to set it up correctly (the key), then consult the DVD/LD "Video Essentials" or the LD "A video Standard". Then it is just a question of what compromises you make in room setup. Few people will, or care, to implement all the ideas in Video Essentials. That will determine how good the result is, or shall I say how "good enough" it is. On video, the environment counts for about 50% of the picture quality, about 30% on calibration/set up (needs to be done professionally http://www.imagingscience.com/), and alas, only 20% on how good the equipment is. On audio it is something like 20%/65%/15%.
-DEFORMER
deformer@%nospam%mediaone.net
The absolute #1 thing in home theater sound is setting it set up correctly and having a good room to put it in. The #2 thing is "first see the #1 thing". I can make a $1,000 system sound better than a $20,000 system if the expensive system is incorrectly set up. Better equipment only closes that last few percentage points of performance.
I have been into home theater for a little over ten years, and stereo systems before that. I have built up my system over the years to the point where it is really a professional-level system, or at least most of it. I don't recommend getting this equipment unless you want to spend way too much money for a totally bleeding-edge system. Yes, even no REAL Theater can touch you, but you pay allot for that last 10% of performance.
However, the post said how to get more "umph!" in your system, and what are we running. I think it helps to ask someone who has a higher-level system what a good budget-sensitive system is.
Any "high end" system is going to use separate components for everything as opposed to an all-in-one unit. But systems like these would be hard to build for less than say $6,000 - $10,000, and that's even if you get some of it used (a really good idea BTW).
You did not say if the $1500 was just for the AMP/processor or for AMP/Processor AND speakers. Look at what I would recommend at the bottom. I think what I recommend will have more meaning if you read what I have, and why I chose it. Bear with me.
Here is my system as it stands currently:
Note to other high-end people: Yes, you can argue some of these choices. I know I did.
TV (wide screen): Princeton Graphics AF30.HD, 32" HDTV (about $4,000)
http://www.princetongraphics.com/Products/Produ
This unit has the best picture quality currently possible for NTSC (DVD/LD/VHS, etc.) of it's size and rivaled only by expensive (over $25K) projectors for HDTV.
DVD player: APEX (region free, Macrovision free) (about $180)
This DVD is not very good, but it is cheap and I can watch my Japanese region 2 imports. I am going to get a Toshiba to do high quality region 1.
Note: I also have Laserdisc, SVHS, Satellite dish, and so on, but it's not really relevant. If you want to know what these are, e-mail me.
Surround Processor: Lexicon DC-1 w/ modules for THX, Dolby Digital, DTS, etc. (about $6,000)
http://www.lexicon.com/DC1/index.html
This is basically the upgradeable PC of the surround processor world, as they come out with things like DTS ES (6.1) and DD EX, etc., I can upgrade my unit rather than replacing it. Then you get much higher quality components that get re-used. Incidentally, Lexicon actually makes the equipment that they use to transfer films to DVD, so this unit is (arguably to some) about as good as it gets. Lexicon has since come out with 2 models above this, but my money isn't burning a hole in my pocket to upgrade just yet (more inputs, better D/As). You can find this unit used on E-bay sometimes for about $3,000.
Amplifier: Outlaw Audio, 165 watts X 5 (about $1,100)
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products.html
You can spend ALOT more for an AMP. But cost/vs. performance no one will mess with you. Why this type of rig sounds so much better than all-in-one systems would take awhile to explain and took me years to finally figure out through all the controversy that there is in the home theater world. But if Slashdot readers are interested in What REALLY makes the difference in all that money that is NOT just a fancy faceplate and a big name, might be worth writing for the perspective of someone who is not a crazed home-theater person might be worthwhile.
Subwoofer: BAG END Elf, 18" and 400 watts self-powered. (About $1,500)
http://www.bagend.com/
I'm surprised more people don't know about these. This is what separates the men from the boys in home theater, even if you added it to an otherwise low-end system. Again, the reasons would tie in to a much more lengthy explanation. Suffice to say, this is weapons-grade bass for home theater or even just audio (which virtually nothing can do BOTH well). These are those things you read about, you know, crack foundations, resonate human bowels, knock-out the neighbors so they can't complain, etc.). Quite a conversation piece too. Lucky for me my neighbors are deaf (not kidding), but they do tell me they "feel" something sometimes.
Speakers: All Cambridge Sound Works, about $800 worth for 5 speakers. (I have 7 though)
Yes, that's right, comparatively cheap speakers in an otherwise high-end system. Most don't believe it until they hear my system. I found that there are MANY speakers out there that are a little better, and even much better than these, but in order to get MUCH better you have to spend about $2,000 each for them rather than $200 each. So you get maybe 10% more performance for 10 times the price (or more). And remember, I am saying this from the perspective of MOST PEOPLE, not cracked-out high-end people. A wise person told me that there are about a 1000 brands of speakers out there. About 100 of them are good, so you have to say NO to 99 good speakers. Also, never decide on speakers by listening to them in the showroom. It is impossible to judge speakers this way. Only buy from a place that will let you take them home and try them first. If they won't, then they don't know how to sell speakers.
There is lots of other in-between stuff like cabling, but you could go on forever with it. I think this covers the major issues. I have friends who have systems that cost well over $100,000.00 that help me devise my opinions. It really puts things in perspective.
And now for the good (and short) part, my recommendations. To those who know anything about the equipment above, this should catch your interest. Don't worry; I'm ready to divert emergency power to my mail server for all those who disagree. Remember what they say about opinions.
Tailor the below to up to or over $1500, with speakers, and you will still do well. Remember #1 that setting it up correctly matters more than anything that you buy in home theater.
Here you go:
Processor/AMP: Onkyo (from about $500 to $3,000) take your pick, they are all good.
I have tried Yamaha, Kenwood, Pioneer, and others. But Onkyo is the all-around best in my opinion. And you don't have to take my word for it; the online reviews you can find will back me up. Oh, and BTW, SONY makes nice TVs and stuff, but they can't seem to make a stereo worth sh$... if you know what I mean. You have to buy the SONY ES units for way too much money, and then they are ONLY as good as the regular units from other brands. Other people may like them but I think they are crap.
Speakers: Cambridge Sound works. Take your pick.
Just pick out a package with the Onkyo and whatever you want to spend on speakers. And you're done.
If you want to know how to set it up correctly (the key), then consult the DVD/LD "Video Essentials" or the LD "A video Standard". Then it is just a question of what compromises you make in room setup. Few people will, or care, to implement all the ideas in Video Essentials. That will determine how good the result is, or shall I say how "good enough" it is. On video, the environment counts for about 50% of the picture quality, about 30% on calibration/set up (needs to be done professionally http://www.imagingscience.com/), and alas, only 20% on how good the equipment is. On audio it is something like 20%/65%/15%.
-DEFORMER
deformer@%nospam%mediaone.net
