Comment Re:Effortless? (Score 1) 213
Quoted: I say that if you took your average adult, put them into a fully immersive foreign language environment, where they could not get anything for themselves, they would learn the foreign language even faster than a child. Heck, to make it a fair comparison, you also would have to give the adult multiple tutors who will happily spend every day helping with identifying words and correcting pronunciation.
I have worked on learning Dutch (skip rant on no proper books or CD's after the beginning level) and gone to live there. So I have observed myself, as a proper human observer, learning vs my pictures and experiences of how children learn. I came to a similar conclusion.
Then I stumbled across something that contrasts (my languaging here) _the organic way a child learns_ with the linear, discursive (2nd def here "Proceeding to (results) through reason rather than intuition"), _language courses that study words and grammar rules_. Here's something from http://www.sk.com.br/sk-krash.html
(Quoted)"The best methods are therefore those that supply 'comprehensible input' in low anxiety situations, containing messages that students really want to hear. These methods do not force early production in the second language, but allow students to produce when they are 'ready', recognizing that improvement comes from supplying communicative and comprehensible input, and not from forcing and correcting production." Stephen Krashen
I wanted the children's environment, if not the level of attention given them, simple tasks, repeated phrases, the same experiences each day with the same words applied to them. And keeping no mind available, just soaking up the way to deal with 'this situation' or 'that'. I was hoping to be able to live with a family and as a 3rd person experience the kid's world or repetitions.
The second (or third) level of language speaking, (quoted) Our car. Papa away. Dry pants. All gone. See baby. Mail come. Children's two-word combinations are highly similar across cultures. Everywhere, children announce when objects appear, disappear, and move about, point out their properties and owners, comment on people doing things and seeing things, reject and request objects and activities, and ask about who, what, and where. (from http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Papers/Py104/pinker.langacq.html)
If I had interaction on this level, what I have described and quoted, then I have no doubt that I would learn to speak faster than a baby, really they take years you know. And I would have picked up a lot more of the nonverbal culture, speed, style, gesture and attitude than I would in any university class.
I have worked on learning Dutch (skip rant on no proper books or CD's after the beginning level) and gone to live there. So I have observed myself, as a proper human observer, learning vs my pictures and experiences of how children learn. I came to a similar conclusion.
Then I stumbled across something that contrasts (my languaging here) _the organic way a child learns_ with the linear, discursive (2nd def here "Proceeding to (results) through reason rather than intuition"), _language courses that study words and grammar rules_. Here's something from http://www.sk.com.br/sk-krash.html
(Quoted)"The best methods are therefore those that supply 'comprehensible input' in low anxiety situations, containing messages that students really want to hear. These methods do not force early production in the second language, but allow students to produce when they are 'ready', recognizing that improvement comes from supplying communicative and comprehensible input, and not from forcing and correcting production." Stephen Krashen
I wanted the children's environment, if not the level of attention given them, simple tasks, repeated phrases, the same experiences each day with the same words applied to them. And keeping no mind available, just soaking up the way to deal with 'this situation' or 'that'. I was hoping to be able to live with a family and as a 3rd person experience the kid's world or repetitions.
The second (or third) level of language speaking, (quoted) Our car. Papa away. Dry pants. All gone. See baby. Mail come. Children's two-word combinations are highly similar across cultures. Everywhere, children announce when objects appear, disappear, and move about, point out their properties and owners, comment on people doing things and seeing things, reject and request objects and activities, and ask about who, what, and where. (from http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Papers/Py104/pinker.langacq.html)
If I had interaction on this level, what I have described and quoted, then I have no doubt that I would learn to speak faster than a baby, really they take years you know. And I would have picked up a lot more of the nonverbal culture, speed, style, gesture and attitude than I would in any university class.
