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Journal cyranoVR's Journal: Red Hat / GNOME issues 30

Journal by cyranoVR

[Editors note: Someone is modding down Trolling4Dollars when he is actually posting some informative stuff! If you have mod points to spare, please correct this (On the other hand, his username is "Trolling '4' Dollars...)]

A lot of stuff to ask about so I'll try to be brief.

Also, let me say this: RTFM. I am familiar with this concept...I have just not had time to actually do it (for example, with Samba I have only read the unofficial HOWTO - I realize I need to read more). This JE is sort of my notes, but if anybody wants to off some advice, feel free :)

GNOME desktop (red hat default):

I am using the Gnome desktop simply because I had already tried the KDE desktop under the SuSE live-eval on my aptiva and wanted to see the alternative. (Note: it seems I am not alone in my observations that GNOME is slow and annoying). So far I can make the following observations:

1) the panel behavior is erratic. e.g. the red hat network update alert icon ("up2date") comes and goes as it pleases.

2) the window buttons on the panel used to "stack" - but after they disappeared (???) I was able to bring them back but now they only line up side to side (maybe my font is too big).

3) Windows 98 is a memory hog sure, but DAMN! Gnome takes 160 MB not doing anything! I will probably buy some more memory just becasue it is cheap ($25 after rebate).

4) Just noticed - where'd my trash icon go??? Its gone. I used the [DELETE] key on a file, but now I can't "undo" it and the trash icon is no where to be found. Very annoying.

(yes, I know this isn't windows, but still...)

Update:
It was off the bottom of the screen because I had changed the display resolution from 128-x1024 to 1024x768. Feel free to call me an idiot. :(

5) I was able to add a lot of launcher icons to the panel - except 1... the "network services" folder from the system settings folder.

Basically, i would add it and it would work - but the next session it wouldn't work - I would get a "not found" error when clicking on the launcher, the network services would have disappeared from the system settings folder! If I remove it from the panel, on next login it's back to normal (i.e. in the system-settings folder). Very annoying and confusing.

Samba
I have gotten this working half way: my other windoze pcs can see the GUNNM share and that it contains a folder - but they can't get to its contents!

Note: I realized overnight the problem might lie in the permissions settings for the shared folder /home/cyranoVR/? The windows PCs can see the share and the directory but don't have read permissions. Or maybe not - shouldn't the home directory and sub folders be at least r-- r-- r--? Also, in the RedHat Samba GUI tool I had set the access settings for the drive to "share." Its not working as advertised.

I have used the sample conf file on the samba web site, too. I think the problem is that I am trying to use red hat's Samba GUI. I can't edit the files directly because my user profile doesn't have permissions(!?) which leads us to...

Program installation

Installing programs has been a pain in the butt because I don't have permissions (unless I log in a root which I understand is a no-no). Thank you Anitfreeze for telling me about sudo. Turns out it comes with Red Hat! However, I am still not sure how to use it...It would be nice if there was a "graphical" sudo because I like using the gui.

Still, the frustrating thing about GNOME is that they sometimes prompt your for the root password, but other times deny you flat out. Very inconsistent and frustrating.

Unix directory structure
Where are I am expected to put my files? what are tmp, etc, var and so on for? I sorta miss windows where you have a "Program Files" folder. I understand that unix is a differnt paradigm - and that every dist has a slightly different file structure - but I am having difficulty finding a comprehensive tutorial on this sort of mundane stuff. They always focus on the commands.

Phoenix aka Mozilla Firebird browser
The same as in windows, except I seem to have lost the "modern" theme by installing other themes, and now I can't add any bookmarks to the bookmark toolbar space!!! (?) Very frustrating. Also, the fonts are either too big or too small - I have to configure these some how.

Redhat Network up2date
Installing new packages was easy - it a great service. But...

updating the kernel
I read somewhere that the first thing you should do is download the latest stable kernel.

However, I installed the new kernel (8.4.2-1.8 or something) and I couldn't boot! First, it couldn't detect my keyboard (I have a KVM switch but that didn't matter on the initial boot for the install) and then it froze on the login screen!

Fortunately, GRUB allows you to choose your kernel, but I don't want the bad one on the list! How to remove? Also, any general tips on the linux kernel - installation etc...should I be downloading source and compiling to ensure that it will work with my processor? No, that doesn't seem right...

Online Help
Is useless for all the problems I am describing. Yeah, linux is a community, so I guess I have to go out and ask people. On the other hand, other open source stuff like PHP have such terrific online help that I am rather disappointed...

Good things:

Setting up printing was easy - I just pointed the print spooler to the IP address for my SMC print server. Done and done - no driver installation needed!

I can browse all the shares on my windows network "out of the box." Very nice.

Hmm...thats about it, actually. Crashes are definitely more stable and I like have command line access. There are so many subtle differences between GNOME and windows (and linux and windows) that it will take some getting used to. I may just dump Gnome and go to KDE soon.

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Red Hat / GNOME issues More

Red Hat / GNOME issues

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  • You've probably noticed there are no drive letters. This can be confusing if you have more than one drive or partition and are new to Linux. In general the layout is as follows:

    / = root (This is where everything resides, other drives and partitions, other directories, etc... Think of it as being nearly equal to "My Computer") /home/ (This is where home directories for each user reside. Assuming that you have a non-root account, that user will have a home directory in /home. This is where your normal u
    • Root will install most programs under /usr/bin or /usr/sbin. Think of those as the closest thing Linux has to "C:\Program Files".

      This is where I installed MozillaFirebird: /usr/share/MozillaFirebird/. I had to log into root to do it though - because I didn't have permissions to write to /usr/share/. I've been told logging in as root is a bad thing? (probably because you can accidentaly do stuff like delete your /mnt/ dirs?

      XFree86 is not truly an environment like GNOME.

      What applications can you run i
      • What applications can you run in GNOME**? I'm assuming just xterm and a few x-apps? No Mozilla or other gui apps, right?

        er...I meant XFree86 - what gui apps can you run in it?
      • This is where I installed MozillaFirebird: /usr/share/MozillaFirebird/. I had to log into root to do it though - because I didn't have permissions to write to /usr/share/. I've been told logging in as root is a bad thing? (probably because you can accidentaly do stuff like delete your /mnt/ dirs?

        Actually installing things in /usr is the accepted method if you want them to be globally available. If you only want the app available to a single user, then you can install in their home dir. You'll need to mod

        • Now... for something REALLY cool. From VC1 type the following sequence of commands and VC switching:
          [etc...]

          If figured out how to ctl-alt-f1 last night but I couldn't figure out how to start X. (I kept getting a message whenever I tried to run mwm: "Only root wants to run mwm" - in retrospect, the reason this failed is obvious).

          However, your comment probably will probably end up saving me several hours learning curve - thanks! I can't wait to get home and try out this stuff out.
  • I haven't bothered to update my kernel and I haven't had any problems. Then again, I'm just a home user on a singleuser system. I personally use 'su -c' for everything. No reason, just what I'm used to! And generally you keep all of your work files, little projects and your own specific configuration files in /home/USERNAME, which in your case would be /home/cyranoVR. /etc contains systemwide configuration files for things like init (the bootup system), your web server (typically Apache), your MTA (mail t
  • Although if you use Nautilus like you would use Explorer, there are undelete options and a trash bin.

    Redhat 8.0+ uses bluecurve, an odd combo of KDE and Gnome (Looks the same regardless of which you are using).

    Memory usage is not necessarily accurate, especially when it comes to X.

    Home directories default to NOT being readable by anyone but owner and group under redhat. I never bother to change this, so I'm not sure where redhat puts the umask info for home directory creation.

    Simple solution, (not a go
    • Although if you use Nautilus like you would use Explorer, there are undelete options and a trash bin.

      I am definitely using bluecurve. The trash bin disappeared off my desktop!!! I swear, I didn't touch anything. It just...vanished (note: this also happened with the Network Servers folder when i tried to add it to the panel - save that it returned on next reboot). So undeleting and taking stuff out of it was impossible (fortunately I didn't delete anything important - just the Mp3 player plugin for xmms
      • /home/user/.gnome-desktop

        Here's the entry for Trash:
        [Desktop Entry]
        Version=1.0
        Encoding=UTF-8
        Name=Trash
        T ype=X-nautilus-trash
        URL=trash:
        X-Nautilus-Icon= trash-empty

        permissions are rwx------
        • Here's my trash entry

          [cyranoVR@gunnm .gnome-desktop]$ more Trash

          [Desktop Entry]
          Version=1.0
          Encoding=UTF-8
          Name=Trash
          T ype=X-nautilus-trash
          URL=trash:
          X-Nautilus-Icon= gnome-fs-trash-full

          looks like it's still there! But why can't I see it? The conclusion that I have come to is that it is off the edge of the screen or hidden under the panel. I'll look for it later (or I guess I'll have to edit a text file that lists its location so that it is back on the viewable part of the monitor?)
  • Directories are slightly different from files when it comes to access. To be able to view a directory, you don't just need the read bit set, you need the execute bit set.

    So r--r--r-- (chmod 444) is insufficient. If you want to be able to view the directory, it must at a minimum be set to r-xr-xr-x (chmod 555). Quite probably rwxr-xr-x (chmod 755) so you can edit it as whichever user owns the directory =]

  • A lot of stuff to ask about so I'll try to be brief.

    If this is brief, what is long? ;-)

    Also, let me say this: RTFM.

    Good idea.

    GNOME desktop (red hat default):

    I use WindowMaker and I like it a lot. Another geek friend of mine uses fluxbox. He likes that for its simplicity. You will get better performance out of something like this rather than Gnome or KDE without giving up a whole lot. Once you know the various commands, you won't need all the menus and whatnot that Gnome or KDE throw at yo

    • vebatim:

      "No trash bin icon...who cares?"

      Well, my feeling is, why does VA even put the icon on the "desktop" if it is going to be disappearing for no reason?

      "Samba security issues"

      My whole home network is behind a hardware router/firewall, so I tend to think security isn't an issue (also, barring any unknown exploits, Samba only exposes the shared directory, not anything else).

      I am actually considering "starting over" with Mandrake, as they seem to have a focus on "user experience" that red hat does not
      • Well, my feeling is, why does VA even put the icon on the "desktop" if it is going to be disappearing for no reason?

        Hah, okay, touche, my fencing friend. I don't know why it disappears, but if it's important to you, then it matters. Sounds like a bug, I reckon. My experience with KDE was that what was on the desktop was controlled by a text file in the ~/.kde or ~/KDE directory. (W/out my linux box in front of me, I can only guess what it was.) There should be a series of files in there, with maybe

    • Yes, use sudo. No, don't use a gui. E-mail me and I will send you my /etc/sudoers file. This is the file that controls sudo behavior. You might want to refrain from installing programs until you understand things better.

      I already installed Phoenix to /usr/share/MozillaFirebird/ but after reading the link you gave me ( http://www.pathname.com/fhs/2.2/ [pathname.com] ) I am realizing I did the wrong thing.

      I keep seeing the command make install in all sorts of linux installations HOWTOs - I know make is usually used for c
      • I already installed Phoenix to /usr/share/MozillaFirebird/ but after reading the link you gave me ( http://www.pathname.com/fhs/2.2/ ) I am realizing I did the wrong thing.

        Well, I am not sure it's the wrong thing because it's working, right? I would classify this kind of thing as non-standard versus varying degrees of being more standard. What you did is non-standard. It becomes a problem in trying to keep track of everything you have installed. The purpose of /usr/local is that you know everything

      • This article [distrowatch.com] is interesting regarding program installation.

        [K]

      • I keep seeing the command make install in all sorts of linux installations HOWTOs - I know make is usually used for compiling programs - but how is it relevant to installations?

        'make' is a very powerful tool that can be used to do all sorts of strange and wonderful things. Learning to abuse make is one of the steps to true UNIX enlightenment.

        In any case you really shouldn't have to worry about 'make' or 'make install' at this point unless you are compiling some program from source. For now I would reccom
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • 3. Samba
      Su to root and edit that config. Don't be scared of root, but respect it. Here's how I have my samba config setup:       ...

      [Shared]
      comment = Christina's shared stuff
      path = /home/nobody

      nobody? I remember this term from an article in 2600 - it is like the IPC$ in windows, right? Hmm, this will require some research.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • IPC$ is equivalent to a "null session" on a *nix box (this I learned from 2600, so I'm not sure what it means either - but I'm sure a quick google of IPC$ will answer all your questions).

          I plan on RTFM for samba later tonight, but in the meantime, a question:

          What is the significance of setting up users in the samba config file? Can't you just set up the security level as "SHARE," providing access to everybody on the LAN? Or do you have to provide information on the guest account?

          I am sort of confused a
  • He probably pissed someone off, oh well it's not like everyone here doesn't have karma to burn or anything.

    Oh and as other people have said, try not to use the GUI. You'll probably eventually use this box as a file-server or something of that nature, and unless you want to open up the XServer or use VNC you'll need to be comfortable with the console.

    If you're using it as a desktop however, then anyone telling you not to use the GUI is an elitist prick =)

    Also I posted a link to this before, but check out

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