Comment Re:still not gambling (Score 1) 90
I'm not sold.
Why is wagering cash directly 'gambling; but exchanging cash for nonrefundable WagerBucks that are only used for wagering just prior to wagering not gambling? It's true that being nonrefundable makes WagerBucks no longer a strict representation of cash; but that's sort of like saying that things you buy with gift cards are part of the barter economy because gift cards can't be cashed out.
I'm also unclear on point 2: people can certainly gamble on games that are directly adversarial and have rules with win/loss/tie conditions; but there's an entire category where all outcomes are wins of varying sizes(like the 'ticket' machines where you always get at least a tiny trickle of output per play; but the actual prizes are hundreds or thousands of tickets; a loss state is clearly implied by the valuation but denied by the rules; most lootboxes are this way since they are never genuinely empty.
Point 3 also seems curious: is casino poker not-gambling because the owner/operator only takes the standard house rake each hand, regardless of which players are winning or losing? Is it only ever gambling if the operator deals in money, and as long as there's a level of indirection it's never gambling? What level of separation counts as separation if the operator pays out in something that only 3rd parties buy; but keeps an eye on the secondary market and adjusts the game accordingly(with items known to have higher secondary market values displayed in the same way that casinos display high cash value outcomes) or the like?
Ultimately definitions can be,(and always are) matters of what we want them to be; but none of what you describe seems to suggest that it is 'not hard' to have 'very easy and clear boundaries and definitions'. It's not impossible to have boundaries and definitions of some sort; but the whole affair looks ripe for ambiguity and boundary pushing; especially when the incentives overwhelmingly favor someone who can get gambling effects without suffering gambling regulations.
Why is wagering cash directly 'gambling; but exchanging cash for nonrefundable WagerBucks that are only used for wagering just prior to wagering not gambling? It's true that being nonrefundable makes WagerBucks no longer a strict representation of cash; but that's sort of like saying that things you buy with gift cards are part of the barter economy because gift cards can't be cashed out.
I'm also unclear on point 2: people can certainly gamble on games that are directly adversarial and have rules with win/loss/tie conditions; but there's an entire category where all outcomes are wins of varying sizes(like the 'ticket' machines where you always get at least a tiny trickle of output per play; but the actual prizes are hundreds or thousands of tickets; a loss state is clearly implied by the valuation but denied by the rules; most lootboxes are this way since they are never genuinely empty.
Point 3 also seems curious: is casino poker not-gambling because the owner/operator only takes the standard house rake each hand, regardless of which players are winning or losing? Is it only ever gambling if the operator deals in money, and as long as there's a level of indirection it's never gambling? What level of separation counts as separation if the operator pays out in something that only 3rd parties buy; but keeps an eye on the secondary market and adjusts the game accordingly(with items known to have higher secondary market values displayed in the same way that casinos display high cash value outcomes) or the like?
Ultimately definitions can be,(and always are) matters of what we want them to be; but none of what you describe seems to suggest that it is 'not hard' to have 'very easy and clear boundaries and definitions'. It's not impossible to have boundaries and definitions of some sort; but the whole affair looks ripe for ambiguity and boundary pushing; especially when the incentives overwhelmingly favor someone who can get gambling effects without suffering gambling regulations.