Creationist have always said speciation happenns much faster than Darwin imagined. Evolutionist themselves have discovered it happens billions of times faster than Darwin imagined in many cases. It can happen in a few generations. Reznick, D.N., Shaw, F.H., Rodd, F.H. and Shaw, R.G., Evaluation of the rate of evolution in natural populations of guppies (Poecilia reticulata), Science 275(5308):1934–1937, 1997 There are dozens of similar examples from evolutionist themse;ves A theory that explains everything explains nothing. You hardly hear of the incredible speed that we now know by observation occurs all the time because any evidence that can only be interpreted as a strike against evolution is simpoly ignored. When they get caught with their pants down they just claim that rapid speciation is just as much proof of evolution as imperceptible change is. Heads I win, tales you lose . real scientific! The Galopagos finches are now estimated by evolutionist such as Grant who studied them that they ALL INTERBREED and can speciate in as little as 200 years. But again , so what? Even if they do they are still finches. Why is it so hard to see that leading evolutionst who have been committing one massive fraud after another from Ernst Haekel to Piltdown Man to PiltdownBird to phony Lucy dolls that convince children she was almost human when her hands and feet were even more apelike that most modern knuckle walking apes would think twice about ignoring evidence that sheds a questionable light on the ancient anti-God religion of evoution? Speciation is crucial to the creation model but worthless to evolution. Speciation is a loss , evolution needs gains. Nat. Geographic called the beak size changes in the finches " Instant Evolution" because they cahange very rapidly according to the weather. It is not evolution at all, just a built in survival mechanism

That just proves that the church has cowtowed to atheist phlosophers. It was not scientist who jumped on tyhe band wagon of great ages and evolution it was liberal theologians and the next generation of scientist raised in the compromising church finally bought the fairy tale. No offense but is there an echo when you think? Jesus Christ is the last Adam, if the first Adam wqs a metaphor Jesus Christ is a metaphor. I can count the people who have that view on one hand that one of my 6th grade Sunday school students would have trouble debating. They no nothing about the Bible and next to nothing about the "science" . Even if science did support it, which it does not, so what? Scientists are fallible human beings capable of mistakes and dishonesty and they were not there. God was there and cannot lie or make mistakes. Even rabid atheists like Steven J. Gould and Derek Ager said that secular geologist were conned and brainwashed {their words not mine} for 150 years by people like the lawyer Charles Lyell who laid out the ground work for Darwins so called theory. These great dates were in place many decades before we discovered radioactivity not to mention the various methods. Exodus 20 vs 8-11 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Is that vague to you? 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 King James Version (KJV) 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. Matthew 24:37-39 King James Version (KJV) 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. Jesus Christ believed in a 6000 year old universe and He created it, a "christian" who claims he was wrong is worshipping the wrong Jesus.

That is bait and switch. No informed creationist disagrees with the facts of natural selection and speciation. People like Hugh Ross who believe insane things like souless humans beleves in the fixity of species but biblical creationist certainly do not . As a matter of fact they are absolutley crucial to the creation model . What we disagree with is the fairy tale that we are all related to a common ancestor that arose byitself from inorganic chemicals. Creationist were using natural selection to argue for the truth of God's word centuries before Darwin was born and it was the creationist Edward Blyth who first wrote a scientific paper on the subject in 1835-37 . The Marxist atheist Steven J. Gould had access to papers of Darwin no one else did and found proof that Darwin lied when hw sais he never heard of Blyth before he wrote the origin despite the fact his paper was written in the leading naturalist journal of the day.

ROFUMEB !!!!!!!!! So you proved intelligence is required, congatulations!

Actually evolutionists are shocked that speciation happens billions of times faster than Darwin imagined and it can happen in just a few generations. The finches of the Galapogos are now estimated to be able to speciate in 200 years. The big question is ,SO WHAT ? Just because an animal no longer breeds with animals it use to does not make them something else. There are rabbits in America that have speciated but they are still rabbits . To make them something other than a rabbit require rewriting their biotic code. Codes do not write themselves , intelligence does not rise by itself from matter. Information is prima facia evidence of intelligence. Researchers in Trinidad relocated guppies (Poecilia reticulata) from a waterfall pool teeming with predators to previously guppy-free pools above the falls where there was only one known possible predator (of small guppies only, therefore large guppies would be safe).1 The descendants of the transplanted guppies adjusted to their new circumstances by growing bigger, maturing later, and having fewer and bigger offspring. The speed of these changes bewildered evolutionists, because their standard millions-of-years view is that the guppies would require long periods of time to adapt. One evolutionist said, ‘The guppies adapted to their new environment in a mere four years—a rate of change some 10,000 to 10 million times faster than the average rates determined from the fossil record.’2 Morell, V., Predator-free guppies take an evolutionary leap forward, Science 275(5308):1880, 1997. Flies, fish and finches Wikimedia commons: Marrabbio2 Other examples of rapid adaptation, even to the extent of producing ‘new species’—speciation—abound. (If a population arises from another which cannot interbreed anymore with its parent population, it is generally defined as a new species.) Creation magazine recently reported how evolutionists described as ‘alarming’ the rate of change in the wingspan of European fruit flies introduced accidentally to America.8,9,10 Similarly, rapid changes have been reported recently for Drosophila fruit flies and sockeye salmon—within just nine and thirteen generations respectively.11 In the case of Darwin’s famous finches, it had been estimated that from one million to five million years would have been necessary for today’s Galapagos Island species to radiate from their parent populations. But actual observations of rapid finch adaptation have forced evolutionists to scale that back to a timeframe of just a few centuries But again it was the speed of adaptation, many thousands of times higher than (their interpretation of) the ‘fossil record’ that surprised evolutionists. Case, T.J., Natural selection out on a limb, Nature 387(6628):15–16, 1997

Talk about ramming through nonsense as science:\ Article from: Creation Volume 20Issue 3 Cover Amazing admission Professor Richard Lewontin, a geneticist (and self-proclaimed Marxist), is certainly one of the world’s leaders in evolutionary biology. He wrote this very revealing comment (the italics were in the original). It illustrates the implicit philosophical bias against Genesis creation—regardless of whether or not the facts support it. ‘We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.

Millions of years and evolution are religious as can be. Any scientific evidence , which is overwhelming. that the earth cannot be billions of years old and self reproducing organisms cannot form from an inorganic soup sans intelligence atheism require great time periods and evolutiojn. To be a secular humanist you have to have millions of years to imagine the impossible . Basing your beliefs on , in your words. {. Generally accepted scientific requirements} is a sure sign one is ignorant of the subject at hand and is afraid to think for themselves and too intellectually lazy to learn the facts and decide truth for themselves, even if you get laughed at by the flock.

Faith in what? Your neighbors cat? If evolution is true then Jesus Christ is a myth , if great ages are true Jesus Christ is a myth. Jesus is the last Adam , if He is descended from a metaphor you have a problem. Jesus Christ said Adam and Eve were created in the beginning and that death was the last enemy. If there were millions of years of death before Adam then Jesus died for nothing because God thinks cancer and predation are very good. Your problem is you are a coward , and your intellectually lazy, no offense, just the facts. If you knew the Bible at all you would not say what you did but you are more concerned about being laughed at than obeying God. Jesus told us we would be persecuted and killed for following Him and 100k a year are. It is going to get much worse and the day will come when you have to choose between life in this world or life in the next. The very first verse of the Bible are the most majestic ever uttered by man: " In the Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth" . It does not say He created the earth 10 ba after the heavens , it says the sun ,moon and stars were created after the earth , it does not say we evolved but that we were created the same day as the land animals which would include dinosaurs and the word translated great whales on the 5th day is translated as sea monsters every where else. There are sea monsters , live and in the fossils , the giant squid is one. This idea of apeasing the atheist philosophers who sold this idea of great ages was tried by Bishop Paley 200 years ago and is the same argument the I.D. movement uses to day. It will never work, any argument you bring will be countered no matter how ridiculous their argument is even more inportently people like Richard Dawkins are smart enough to see Christians like you don't believe their own book and that great ages and/or evolution are true then God is an ogre no oe would be inclined to worship, including me. Exodud 20 8-11 KJV 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Is that clear enough? Calling God a liar is not recommended.

I would bet your knowledge of the history of the paradigm shift in geology in the 19th century is non-existent as well as your grasp of dating methods used to sell dates decided nearly a century befory we discovered radioactivity . There are many top flight scientist including the world's foremost expert on plate tectonics and super computer modeling {The Terra Program} for geo-physics wrote the program to explain Noah's Flood who argue from science against great ages and their arguments are overwhelming but most Americans prefer to let the state tell them what to think. . His model is the only one that explains why the plates started to move in the first place. Of course atheism has to have millions of years as no one could believe the world just popped into existence sans intelligence. They have to have the millions of years to be their creator god. The Pangea theory was founded by the creationist Antonio Snyder in 1859 and if you have any knowledge of this subject whatsoever you can guess why he had to publish in French. Same thing happened to Gregor Mendell , the repackaging of the ancient anti-God religion of evolution set science back 60 years in genetics and plate tectonics . BTW th idea for Pangea came strait out of Genesis . 9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. Has it ever occured to you that from the many frauds of Ernst Haekel to Piltdown man to Piltdown Bird {archeoraptor} to the incredible fraud against school childrenwith Lucy dolly that show her with human genitailia , human eyes, nose and most of all human hands and feet despite the fact people like the curator of the St. Louis museum have been presented with the new bones found that show Lucy's hands and feet are more curved than most apes and her wrists lock for walking on her knuckles that when you make snide remarks like the e decades ago it is you that sounds stupid . Save for medical quackery the greatest assault on scientific integrity in world history is the repackaged ancient anti-God religion of evolution.. The fact most leading evolutionists have no integrity whatsoever is a matter of public record. Why not read and study the Thousands not Billions report instead of having your beliefs spoon fed to you by the State?

These hate filled , mean spirited attacks on those who reject your religion of secular humanism and do not believe they are the supreme being as you do is all one needs to know to determine the intelligence of the argument and the one presenting it. Read a history book , Louis Pasteur was tha father of modern biology , Gregor Mendel the founder of genetics, Nicholas Steno founded the study of strata ,the founder of physics was Sir Issac Newton {full time theologian-part time scientist} , the founder of the scientific method was Boyle, today the world's leading expert on plate tectonics , earthquakes , and super computer modeling for geo physicist is John Baumgardner N.A.S.A. 's fair haired golden boy} , the astro-physicist with the greatest prediction since Newton is Dr. Russell Humphreys, the best surgeon {seperates conjoined twins} , over 50 biology professors etc. etc. are all staunch creationist. Yet you who would lose a debate with one of my 6th grade Sunday school students think anyone who does not blindly follow the ruling paradigm is an idiot and you are a genius. If you actually read the creationist arguments in . for instance, the "Thousands not Billions" report that was created over an 8 year period with some of the world's best scientist you might learn a thing or 2. C-14 can only measure {in theory} thousands of years yet ALL fossils have easily identifiable anponts of it and that includes diamonds and coal as well . Dinosaurs and coal "date" around 40k years and diamonds around 60. That does not mean that they are that old but it does prove they could not be even 1 million , let alone hundreds of millions and died out 65 ma. ago. The rocks of a known age in New Zealand, England , Hawaii , Mt. St. Helens and many others date at least 200 ma old and in the case of Hawaii 3 billion. So far no one has ever been able to show me a rock of known age that the date was not off by an incredible amount. The only good 'dates" are ones that could never be proved and all the ones that we watched form are wrong yet I am stupid to not buy the story? When rocks are tested with different methods they get very different results. At the Grand Canyon the lava at the bottom "dates" 500 ma older than that on the rim and the same rocks gave dates from 500 ma to 1.7 billion years depending on the method uses. Read the report. you can download a layman;s copy or an advanced version for free. All of their data came from secular sources. The science of meassuring the individual isotope atoms is incredible, amazing, the "dates' are purely religious and by changing the starting assumptions will give any answer you want.

Neanderthals are human beings.

Apparently you are satisfied with having others think for you. First of all ALL people are religious, nothing is more religious than secular humanism! I am a creationist but most of the scientific arguments from I.D. I agree with. You have been brainwashed into believing all scientist accept evolution and millions of years, that is a lie from hell. The best geo-physicist on earth is a creationist , the best surgeon , over 50 biology professors , and one of the best astro-physicist as well. No evolutionist has ever founded a major branch of science and to the best of my knowledge none have made any world changing inventions like the M.R.I. as the staunch creationist Dr. David Damadian did. Claiming there is no scientific argument for an ancient earth , 6000 years is ancient compared to our lifespans, or for a supernatural creation is elephant hurling. It is a fallacious {dishonest} argument that simply tries to ignore the opposing arguments which you are ignorant of. To turn a gull into a non-bird you would have to rewrite the code and codes do not write themselves, that requires intelligence!

What amazes me is otherwise intelligent people buy this nonsense. Evolutionary pressure? Exactly what is that? I know what people claim it is but in order to change a bird {or anything else for that matter} into a non-bird would require writing a new biotic code for the creature. That cannot be down by sorting random copying mistakes with Natural Selection. Selection requires something to select and something is always lost in the process. All natural selection can do is sort out genetic information for avian lungs , avian brains, avian skeletons, wings feathers etc. There is a big difference between a swallow and a condor but they are both birds and no amount of time and chance one can imagine will ever change that. Only God can create. I don't want to believe in God and you can't mak me is not a scientific statement. It's like being told to investigate a man stabbed in his sleep but no matter what you cannot conclude an intelligent being killed him on purpose.

The sky is falling , the sky is falling! Americans are such sheep , no matter how much blatant fraud the politicians trying to scare us into allowing them to bankrupts us commit such as the emails in England or how many scientist say humans could not cause a big enough percentage of this so called crisis to matter and nothing they could do would change it enough to measure they are begging for their freedoms and prosperity to be surrendered to politicians. The global crisis is not the weather it is the political climate.