Your paragraph regarding invoking colonialism is nonsensical since colonialism is one root cause of the current situation. It isn't what's currently wrong, it's a why.

As for your rallying for the lives and efforts of the people trying to improve things, you only mentioned that now once I prompted you, prior to that would were just ranting.

And once more, nice try! You're trying to combine an convoluted the poor guys who got caught up and killed with the blasphemy issue (these are the relatively rare occurrences) with those killed by violence otherwise (which is, sadly, very frequent).

Yes, a lot of people who work on real solutions there have been killed by wackos. This is a sad fact.

As for your Where you and I disagree is who is behind these tragedies and what their agendas may be. You give an over simplified answer of "crazy radical extremists", whereas I say there's a combination of brainwashed morons, mercenaries and revenge bent blackwidows organized by power brokers who have agendas. But whatever, if you're not ready to accept that reality is that complicated then there's no convincing you.

However, can we at least agree that whoever these monsters are, they need to be stopped? Can we also agree that those who are trying to develop education, clean water, etc there should be supported? If we can agree on this then that's all that's really relevant, and good day to you.

Rant rant rant.

Nice try. Yes it still is rare. It's a country of nearly 200 million people! If you want to look at it that way, there's just as much if not more violence and racism against Muslims, Jews, Blacks and other minorities here in the "west".

Your negativity is a problem because it's not the truth, it's a very shallow representation of the situation and ignores the roots of the situation.

How am I damaging the cause of "moderates" (whatever that means, I just think "decent human beings") by saying that you're misrepresenting the roots of the issues? The death and suffering of so many decent people is a terrible thing and the people causing it (and funding it) need to be stopped. There is a disgusting game being played by the powerful, as has been through history, and to pretend that's no longer the case is foolish and what truly undermines efforts to improve society.

The TTP are disgusting monsters and I oppose them and those like them, regardless of who their backers are. You are the one who looks like he's providing political cover and deniability for their agenda. I say those monsters and others like them need to be stopped, regardless of who their backers are, and regardless of whether they're brainwashed morons or mercenaries.

Finally! You bring something constructive! Greg Mortenson's doing great work in that area of the world. There are others as well who are building schools for the poor and wells for clean drinking water. They're pioneers and need support for all of the great work they're doing.

The TTP's not the only challenge they face. They also need to deal with feudal lords and traditionalists who also try to undermine their efforts because they want to keep the people on their lands ignorant and subservient. The are many monsters in those woods, each with it's own agenda. People like Greg Mortenson who are trying to build schools and wells are incredibly brave and doing a lot of good work, and our energies should be spent in their support, not arguing frivolously.

Ah, so looks like BCGlorfindel found someone to help.

I'm simply pointing our the idiocy in his/her posts. And "oooh, no! A grammatical mistake, we must stop reading at once!", really?

Read the other comments if you want to find that info. Again, it's not a new tactic. You should know better than to assume that such tactics would no longer be uses.

As for hunting down and providing links to everything, sorry but I have a life. I'm not going to hold your hand to find this info. If you're inherently biased there's no point, and if you're not then go look it up yourself. It matters not to me because that isn't the actual point to my posts.

The only reason for my posting is to say "why engage in promoting, typically false, negative views and outlooks? Why not use those energies to find solutions to improve things for others?". So what are you interested in? Just trolling and hating? Or will you be a better person and think of ways to make things better?

Ah, there you go again with your generalizing hate rant and oversimplification of the situation. You've brought nothing of value to help improve the lives of those people and their development.

Your choice to ignore the social and historical context what has caused their present state does a huge disservice to their struggles for progress. You don't just flip a switch an cause societies to change, and ranting about what's wrong with them only creates antagonism and stifles progress. But then again, maybe that's what you want.

As for the Muslim people, they are a spectrum just like any other group (and the vast majority of "westernized", whatever that means, Muslims are either Sunni or Shia, which are also full of a huge spectrum).

And yes, the vast majority of them and their leaders are *not* wackos. The problem is that the wackos are the ones that get media attention.

Again, you're so keen on painting them as "the Other"... this is typical for those part of the propaganda machine used to justify undermining, oppressing and exploiting of "the Other", makes sense given the amount of resources in their lands and their leaders willing to make deals so they can stay in power. All you've said just shows that you're a willingly or unwittingly a part of that propaganda machine

Wait, wait, so you're going to say you're not? Well then! Where's your interest in bridge building and resolution of problems. As I mentioned in:

http://news.slashdot.org/comme...

the people there have *real* problems for which there are real solutions (oppose foreign aid for governments, support development of education and clean water, support education for girls and the poor, etc).

Please stop this endless negative ranting of yours.

Yes, it is still rare. Citing 1 or 2 more incidents won't change that.

As for rioting, that happens all over the world for even sillier reasons.

Again, aside from negativity I don't see you bringing anything to the discussion to help people.

You *do* however, seem very committed to citing, keeping track of and promoting negativity. Is this something you do for a living or are do you just have so much free time? Sorry but I have a life.

Gee, I wonder who's payroll you're on. Hate much?

Did you miss the point (as an idiot would) are are you trying to distract from it (as someone with a vested interest/agenda would)? The *point* has nothing to do with CNN/Fox specifically - it is that we in the "west" tend to let ourselves be satisfied with shallow report and explanations from our media and institutions.

Nice try, trying to combine and confuse two issues.

Regarding the former, those are pretty rare and is similar to how India's Indra Gandhi was killed by her Sikh bodyguards for ordering a siege on the Sikh's Golden Temple. Poorly educated and underpaid bodyguard + hitting sensitive spot + possible financial incentive = ouch. There was nation wide mourning over the death of the politician, even by those who disagreed with him.

Regarding the latter relating to the murder of Benazir (again, nice try attempting to combine and confuse), the case is still open. That isn't just an "official" stance - her killers still haven't been caught nor identified, even though the primary suspect is her husband who had a lot to (and did) gain from her death. Her assassination is conveniently being pinned on extremest by some people/groups for political purposes and as a diversion, but even that only would work on those who don't know more about what's happening in the region. Her husband and other politicians have shied away from demands to have an actual investigation into her death and continue to do so to this day.

Perpetrators? Jumping to or pushing assumptions again?

First off, two words: puppet politician.

Expressing displeasure and the imposition on a country's sovereignty and is separate from the death of a heinous criminal (honestly, I think that he was already dead but Obama needed to show a "win", hiring people help wag the dog isn't very expensive in that part of the world). This JUI-F guy simply combined both, similar to how you tried to do above.

As I said in this post: http://news.slashdot.org/comme... Maybe this is just another one of many cases of feudal lords, power brokers, politicians, etc being bought to do/say things. Maybe this JUI-F guy's on the same payroll as Bin Laden and you?

As for those TTP monsters - those are the guys with Hell's Angels tatoos. Looks like more mercenaries.

Bravo! Fine attempt. It's bad enough we get shallow and frequently biased news here. Do you honestly believe that we're always getting the truth from our media outlets here? That seems to be the perspective you're trying to push.

LOL, do you have any idea how badly rigged those elections were? Do you really believe the people of Pakistan voted for those people? There's a *ton* of video evidence showing rigging. There were even mass protests in Pakistan almost a year ago demanding investigations, recounts and possibly new elections.

The dynamic there is pretty complicated. It's not something you can sum up in a two minute news blurb.

You clearly don't understand the situation there, or you're deliberately interested misrepresenting the situation there.

If the case is the former, please go try to actually understand what's going on beyond the news and the here say. If it's the later, nice try.

Wow you're ignorant.

Up until a few hundred years ago, while Europe was in the dark ages, Muslim societies were open, progressive, tolerant and quite liberal (don't bother comparing to what liberal means today, that would be a disservice and incredibly foolish). Point being, they were *very* advanced for their time, especially when compared to their European contemporaries.

One of the main reasons cited by Muslim historians for the success of those societies was that those Muslims viewed seeking knowledge and educating themselves for the betterment of society as worship - it was part and parcel of their faith.

Today, most Muslim societies have forgotten their rich history in the aftermath of colonialism. Yes, as much as colonialism apologists may try to deny it, colonialism is 90% of the cause of the current state of affairs. The remaining 10% being the people who find themselves at the top of society deliberately trying to keep the rest of it crippled to maintain their position.

Thank you for showcasing your ignorance and prejudice.

It is in no way incompatible with "western values" as "western values" covers a very large spectrum, and even so Muslims are by their very faith not allow to impose their views on others. They are also not allowed to go murder or harm others with differing views.

Now, are there some people, organizations and agencies that brainwash people do hurt others and say they do so in the name of religion? Yes, but those who do so are also committing a sin from the perspective of the religion's actual teachings. It is a disservice to not note the difference.

Yes, they did stand around and encourage ethnic rivalries.

Prior to the British occupation of the Indian subcontinent, there was no single country. Rather there were two large empires, the Mugal (Muslim) and Marata (Hindu) empires, plus a bunch of scattered independent states and kingdoms.

In the Mugal (Muslim) empire, many of the bureaucrats were Hindu and general Sikh. In the Marata (Hindu) empire, many of the bureaucrats and generals were Muslims. The two empires were rivals, yes, but that was just "empire X vs empire Y", not "religion X vs religion Y".

In the Indian Rebellion of 1857, Muslims and Hindus rebelled together against the British. It was sparked by Muslim and Hindu troops in British service opposing the use of tallow and lard coated bullets (soldiers back then would hold bullets in their mouths).

The British sowed ethnic dissent between Muslims Hindus and Sikhs so as to "divide and conquer". How course, the situation started to run out of control and the locals became harder to manage, so the British decided to pull out.

It's only a tough sell to those who are spoon fed by CNN/Fox and are ignorant of what the situation in Pakistan is.

As for those so called "militant islamists", quite a few that were taken down by Pakistan's military and police had Hell's Angels tatoos. A "hardcore religious islamist" having tatoos, especially Hell's Angels tatoos, really? I mean really? Sounds more like mercenaries / guns for hire to me.

Also, was that who really murdered her? Seems like you didn't know that the investigation into her assassination is still open and her husband (who is in no way even close to religious) is suspected to be involved.

Why was she murdered? Lots of theories, but what we do know is that she was reevaluating her foreign policy in favour of Pakistan's national interests as she felt the US was starting to impose on Pakistan's sovereignty.

What you said is not only false but completely ignorant of what's going on in that part of the world. Pakistan's issues have nothing to do with religion. They have everything to do with feudalism and geopolitics. In fact, mainstream religious figures there are big proponents of education and human rights. The people threatened by education of the masses (including women) there feudal lords and political power brokers (who sometimes have beards, sometimes don't, and those are kept for traditional, not religious, reasons) who want to keep the masses ignorant, illiterate and subservient. This is exploited and exacerbated by geopolitics in exchange for their cooperation. Perhaps the situation in Pakistan is just a bit too complicated for your CNN/Fox spoon fed mind to understand.

If you're lucky the car will have an alt-tab feature

Just remember check the rear view mirror to make sure no one's following behind you.

Sadly, it's something I've come to expect.

"X experts" are human beings with personal opinions (and egos) about what the "best available theory" happens to be.

Of course their opinions can change, depending on either new evidence or where their next grant is coming from.

Natural Selection is the scientifically verified observed phenomenon. Evolution is an extrapolation on that concept. I do *believe* that evolution occurs, I just understand the (important) distinction between what we do observe and what we theorize. Learn to compartmentalize people! Passion should drive you to excel, not make you get into pissing contests.