Comment the "original email" and where it came from... (Score 1, Informative) 1097
Seeing I was the one who sent the 'original e-mail' to Nick to begin with...
(and for those who doubt, search google under my Slashdot login, and you'll soon discover the truth)
A quick timeline for the issue:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tron/message/3654
"It occurs to all of a sudden posts by Nick Moffit cause daily digests from
the server to get corrupted and now I'm starting to get the following
attachment:
Now I know Nick's email have been a problem to list readers before, luckily
I wasn't one of them... now I am... or it could be Mr Lawrances stuff... or
a combination.
Notice how the email reply below dies at Nicks message....
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: [Tron] Digest Number 611
There are 16 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. New Tron 2.0 info on IGN
From: "ryanosity"
2. Re: Re: Cropping
From: Jerronimo
3. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: Jerronimo
4. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: esotek@a...
5. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "Peter A. Peterson II"
6. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "John Silveria"
7. Re: Re: Cropping
From: "John Silveria"
8. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: Scott Jerry Lawrence
9. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "John Silveria"
10. Re: the new score and what to expect from
2.0
From: "John Silveria"
11. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: Nick Moffitt
12. Re: Re: Guard cut in half on solar sailer?
From: Nick Moffitt
13. Re: Re: Guard cut in half on solar sailer?
From: Nick Moffitt
14. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "Adam D. Moss"
15. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "Adam D. Moss"
16. Re: bloopers and practical jokes
From: "Lake Me Poster"
*text cut*
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:58:21 -0800
From: Nick Moffitt
Subject: Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
>
>"
After some discussion of the issue on the list,
which you can read in the archives, I started writing up an article to ferret out info on why people felt the need to do this.
Discussion also started after a bit on CrackMonkey as well.
Then, after a few emails from the EFF and Opensource.org, I bit the bullet and asked Nick the self-same questions that I had to others.
You now know this as the "original email".
Now, the article is waiting for more comments and some fleshing out, and I don't know if it will ever see the light of day, but I do intend on finishing it.
When I first started it, though, it was intended to see 'how far was too far' when supporting something like open source or free software.
Originally, I had accused Nick of being a zealot with this. I have since recanted that, and while I disagree with his methods, having heard his side, something I discovered that many people were listening to, that his point is well put.
While on one hand, he was, as I saw it mentioned earlier, "punishing the users for the crimes of the OS". It can be true to say that it's not their fault that Microsoft isn't repairing these bugs, but it can be also the user's fault for not making sure that their product is fully updated.
On the other hand, one could think that Nick was trying to force people to see his way of thought.
On yet another, he could have been doing it for the laughs.
Like all jokes and lessons, though, the line must be drawn when it stops being funny.
For some, it still is. For a majority of others, it stopped being funny a while back.
As for the mailing list issue.
Nick has said in no small words that the list is restrictive. If was a Yahoo group, or something publicly hosted, then the issue could be raised
that he was censoring content.
But it is a private group, and being as such, he can and has put restrictions on membership.
As a private group, hosted on his own equipment,
he can and does have every right to raise the bar a little. View it as a club with a dress code, as Nick suggests.
The whole issue originally arose on the Tron mailing list, a Yahoo! hosted mailing list.
Because of this, this could have been acted upon
by Yahoo! management as a disruption of service for some people.
So the argument comes down to whether Nick was in the right or wrong. Everyone will have their opinion on this. I only ask that you listen to everyone before making yours.
Don't be so blind to your cause, whatever it may be, just because you agree. There are always two sides to a story, and at least have the courtesy to listen to the other side.
Nick was doing it for the laughs.
He is a supporter of the Free Software movement,
but he was not doing it in support of that.
It did cause problems on a public mailing list,
and a rather lengthy and great flame war on another. This is one of those events that may bring light to a whole new issue.
Discrimination by what Operating System you use.
Ponder that issue, while as a Windows user, I'll go sit in the back of the bus.
(and for those who doubt, search google under my Slashdot login, and you'll soon discover the truth)
A quick timeline for the issue:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tron/message/3654
"It occurs to all of a sudden posts by Nick Moffit cause daily digests from
the server to get corrupted and now I'm starting to get the following
attachment:
Now I know Nick's email have been a problem to list readers before, luckily
I wasn't one of them... now I am... or it could be Mr Lawrances stuff... or
a combination.
Notice how the email reply below dies at Nicks message....
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: [Tron] Digest Number 611
There are 16 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. New Tron 2.0 info on IGN
From: "ryanosity"
2. Re: Re: Cropping
From: Jerronimo
3. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: Jerronimo
4. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: esotek@a...
5. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "Peter A. Peterson II"
6. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "John Silveria"
7. Re: Re: Cropping
From: "John Silveria"
8. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: Scott Jerry Lawrence
9. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "John Silveria"
10. Re: the new score and what to expect from
2.0
From: "John Silveria"
11. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: Nick Moffitt
12. Re: Re: Guard cut in half on solar sailer?
From: Nick Moffitt
13. Re: Re: Guard cut in half on solar sailer?
From: Nick Moffitt
14. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "Adam D. Moss"
15. Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
From: "Adam D. Moss"
16. Re: bloopers and practical jokes
From: "Lake Me Poster"
*text cut*
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:58:21 -0800
From: Nick Moffitt
Subject: Re: Re: Tron 20th DVD
>
>"
After some discussion of the issue on the list,
which you can read in the archives, I started writing up an article to ferret out info on why people felt the need to do this.
Discussion also started after a bit on CrackMonkey as well.
Then, after a few emails from the EFF and Opensource.org, I bit the bullet and asked Nick the self-same questions that I had to others.
You now know this as the "original email".
Now, the article is waiting for more comments and some fleshing out, and I don't know if it will ever see the light of day, but I do intend on finishing it.
When I first started it, though, it was intended to see 'how far was too far' when supporting something like open source or free software.
Originally, I had accused Nick of being a zealot with this. I have since recanted that, and while I disagree with his methods, having heard his side, something I discovered that many people were listening to, that his point is well put.
While on one hand, he was, as I saw it mentioned earlier, "punishing the users for the crimes of the OS". It can be true to say that it's not their fault that Microsoft isn't repairing these bugs, but it can be also the user's fault for not making sure that their product is fully updated.
On the other hand, one could think that Nick was trying to force people to see his way of thought.
On yet another, he could have been doing it for the laughs.
Like all jokes and lessons, though, the line must be drawn when it stops being funny.
For some, it still is. For a majority of others, it stopped being funny a while back.
As for the mailing list issue.
Nick has said in no small words that the list is restrictive. If was a Yahoo group, or something publicly hosted, then the issue could be raised
that he was censoring content.
But it is a private group, and being as such, he can and has put restrictions on membership.
As a private group, hosted on his own equipment,
he can and does have every right to raise the bar a little. View it as a club with a dress code, as Nick suggests.
The whole issue originally arose on the Tron mailing list, a Yahoo! hosted mailing list.
Because of this, this could have been acted upon
by Yahoo! management as a disruption of service for some people.
So the argument comes down to whether Nick was in the right or wrong. Everyone will have their opinion on this. I only ask that you listen to everyone before making yours.
Don't be so blind to your cause, whatever it may be, just because you agree. There are always two sides to a story, and at least have the courtesy to listen to the other side.
Nick was doing it for the laughs.
He is a supporter of the Free Software movement,
but he was not doing it in support of that.
It did cause problems on a public mailing list,
and a rather lengthy and great flame war on another. This is one of those events that may bring light to a whole new issue.
Discrimination by what Operating System you use.
Ponder that issue, while as a Windows user, I'll go sit in the back of the bus.
