Re:Lies (Score 1)

Again I hope you don't think I'm trying to convert you by responding. I'm actually enjoying the discussion. If at any point you think I'm pushing my beliefs on you just say so and the discussion will end. Fair enough?

So going back to the beginning: the mormon church requires money to fully take part, and you can't even know the full details of the religion without paying ("what happens there stays there"...must pay to get there).

I can totally see how people would think that. I used to think that way too to be honest as I'm a convert to the Church after being raised without religion. But again this is belief-based topic we're discussing. Scriptural teaching says all things come from God and ultimately belong to Him. We (all Christians not just Mormons. Can't speak to Muslim/Jewish belief.) are asked to give 1/10th of our increase back to God (via the Church). In times when people raised livestock or farmed then that's what they gave. One sheep out of every ten, one bushel out of every ten, etc.. This is no longer applicable for most people and that's how it's become 10% of monetary income. If you believe in the teaching then it's a non-issue for you. But if you don't believe in the teaching then it is an issue for you. The key part is "issue for you". Simply put it's a matter of faith and not a requirement of worthiness to be a member of the Church. By all means you could attend Church and never pay a dime. This was the counter to the original message I replied to.

Thinking from a secular standpoint: that is similar in principle to scientology, but to a lesser degree. Thinking from a prodestant standpoint: Requiring money to fully take part in a religion is appalling. If an essential part of your funeral service (dressing your dead sister or whatever) can only take place in temple, and you can't enter temple without paying big bucks, most christians would view that as seriously cruel.

Again, just to clarify, dressing a dead relative and funeral services don't take place in the temple. Putting on the burial garment is for endowed members. But the loved one is not hidden from the non-endowed relatives and people are not excluded from a loved one. That would be cruel.

As to histories and other documents: The PBS documentary said the church has an official library which is off limits to the public. It said the church historian was going through it a few years ago, and read things that challenged the "official" church history, so the church leaders closed off the library to EVERYONE, even the historian.

Do you acknowledge the point that most documentaries about the Church are made by non-LDS people? And that some of these people have their own agendas? Have you seen the 60-minutes piece on the Church? Mike Wallace basically stated that he expected to encounter opposition and redirection when he asked to interview President Gordon B. Hinckley and critics of the Church (both internal and external). He then admits that it was just the opposite and that he was given access to whatever he wanted. Editorial and pre-conceived notions play into how things are portrayed. You can make anything look good and you can make anything look bad.

As for making $100k: That is average pay for a programmer in the SF Bay area. I'm sure a large percentage of people on slashdot make that much or more.

Man I gotta move to SF. :-D

And, at the risk of sounding like a jerk: Any smart fellow in the mormon church could easily have learned enough to make that kind of cash if he had spent his church time on education and not religion. The mormons interviewed for the PBS show said "being mormon is like having two full-time jobs."

And not to sound like an altruistic person: Salary is tied to location and market just as much as it is to education. It has nothing to do with religion. I gladly earn less to live in the mid-west. It's not a question of intelligence and education as much as it is a matter of personal preference on where, and how, I want to live. I earn my 70k with at most a 45-hour week, weekends off and a lower mortgage payment than I'd have in California (move away from SoCal 12 years ago). And the Church does encourage people to get an education (and no not just at BYU). Want to read something neat then look up information about the "Perpetual Education Fund". Cheers!