Saint Aardvark's Journal: Slackware - Debian - FreeBSD - Redhat

Writing this on RH8.0. And oh, the difference.

I started using Unix five years ago with Slackware when I bought my first computer (486, oh yeah) over the Internet (I had been thinking about Win9x but was worried about viruses); moved to Debian after reading CmdrTaco's raves; moved to FreeBSD after getting a job at an ISP that used (uses) FreeBSD pretty much exclusively; and now I've downloaded all five ISOs of RedHat 8.0, and I'm going to do my best to use it exclusively, at least at home.

I'm doing this because I'd like to take the RHCE exam. I've read about it, and it seems like a really good qualification -- I'm particularly taken w/the hands-on exam. As far as job qualifications go, I've got a fair amount of experience (enough to get me a junior position, if I had to look), but no certification; as I want a job as a sysadmin, this seems a bit of a lack. Becoming an RHCE seems the best way to fill that gap.

I must admit, I've forgotten what it's like not to have the packaging system do the thinking for you. One of the big reasons I moved to Debian was for the ease of installing new programs; I was sick to death of downloading a cool program, only to find that it depended on six separate libraries, each of which had four separate dependencies. It's such a thrill to just apt-get install foo or cd /usr/ports/devel/foo && make install distclean and then walk away. Trying to do that sort of thinking again is like...I don't know, forgetting how to walk and having to do the math by hand.

For example, I tried to install IceWM over the last couple of nights, and I couldn't get it to work. It depended on libdb3-1, but using RPMFind and FreshRPMs.net I was only able to find 3.3. Maybe not a show-stopper -- I didn't try forcing the installion and seeing -- but I didn't want to risk it; the current install is about the fourth in as many weeks (don't install Linux after !}fmt FreeBSD after Linux, kids!), and I didn't want to bother w/YARI. I gave up in the end, compiled from source (which, while surely part of The Linux Way doesn't seem to be part of The Reddat Way. Got it installed no problem, but then came the problem of how to start it up.

I went through a fairly default install of RH8.0, including selecting Gnome for a default environment (though installing KDE as well). That meant the default runlevel was 5, and so GDM started up. I found /etc/sysconfig/desktop, but setting DESKTOP to icewm or /usr/local/bin/icewm just didn't work. I gave up -- I was getting sick and tired of a) GNOME not working w/a home directory mounted over NFS (grr) and b) KDE trying to grab URLS whenever I highlighted something and c) both environments slowness (I've got a 450MHz celeron, 384MB ram, and d) both steal too many cycles for my liking) and lack of a terminal screen in easy and close and prominent proximity -- and set runlevel to 3. I rebooted, changed .xinitrc, typed startx and breathed a sign of relief. Cheating, sure, but I'd really like to have a working desktop before the year is out.

So now I get to learn about rpm. And hopefully I can put RHCE after my name (no, not really) within a year or so. That'd be nice.

RPMHell

[Arker]

Welcome to RPM hell.

I quit using RH a couple of years ago, this being one of the reasons. It's annoying. I remember there was a tool called rpmfind that attempted to resolve dependencies and basically act like apt, it worked well on some occasions but sometimes did not. If I recall it was hosted on rpmfind.net, you might check that out. I think there have been more tools like that developed more recently, urpmi I think is one, but I have no experience with them, I've just read of others using them. I went back to slackware, which for all the slamming it gets from certain quarters was always much more user-friendly from my point of view. Never had anything like the dependency programs with Slack that I had with RH. If you haven't tried it recently I'd highly recommend giving it a try - it's a damn fine distribution that usually Just Works without the hassles. Of course, if your purpose is to obtain those initials a distro that just works won't help there I guess.

I'm not at all sure how much those initials are really worth though. There are several other Linux certifications around you might want to look at as well, http://www.linuxcertification.com/ and http://www.lpi.org/ I've looked into before, I'm sure there are others. Since RH is based in my homeland of N.C. and have a great logo and a great reputation for supporting Free software by paying hackers to hack and all that, I've always wished I had more good to say about them, but on a purely technical level... well... let's just say RH is one of my least favourite distros. I can't think of a single RH feature I really like. YMMV, of course.

Re:RPMHell

[Saint Aardvark]

Welcome to RPM hell. I quit using RH a couple of years ago, this being one of the reasons.

Well, yeah -- but before this it was apt-get hell (I made the mistake, once, of upgrading to -testing and then trying to go back to -stable), and before that it was library hell (the problems w/dependencies in plain ol' Linux [Slackware in my case] were what made me try Debian inna first place). I think it's the annoying part of Linux for an end user; I've developed an appreciation for just about all the other strange or cryptic or difficult parts of Unix, but this is one I find it difficult to be mature about. For the developer, though, I'm sure having all the libraries around is The Right Thing.

Thanks for the pointer to rpmfind.net; that and freshrpms are turning out to be pretty useful.

Of course, if your purpose is to obtain those initials a distro that just works won't help there I guess.

Well, that is my purpose.

I'm not at all sure how much those initials are really worth though. There are several other Linux certifications around you might want to look at as well, http://www.linuxcertification.com/ and http://www.lpi.org/ I've looked into before, I'm sure there are others.

Part of the reason I like the idea of being RHCE is the practical examination; I just think that's 'way cool. But you're right, I should check into the others you've mentioned.

In general, I want to get some sort of certication just to be -- well, not safe, but the job I'm in (2 years now) is my first job in computers; before that it was sandwich shops and delis. The practical experience is there, and I think something like this on paper as a...damn aphasia...secondary proof of that would be a good thing. Plus, my experience is by no means in everything I should know about (weak spots: SAMBA, NIS, system tuning, and the list goes on). This is a good reason to learn 'em good.

I've always wished I had more good to say about them, but on a purely technical level... well... let's just say RH is one of my least favourite distros. I can't think of a single RH feature I really like. YMMV, of course.

Heh...tell you the truth, I like FreeBSD. Anyone know of a cert. program for them?

Re:RPMHell

[Arker]

Never tried Debian so I can't say much about that, I thought it was supposed to work fairly well. With slack - well, most things that I wanted I found are usually available very quickly in proper slack tarballs, from slackware ftp or linuxmafia.org, and the rare program that wasn't available so could be compiled and tarballed quite easily. I had a hell of a time getting things to compile on redhat several times, which didn't impress me.

Well, that is my purpose.

And a reasonable purpose it is.

Heh...tell you the truth, I like FreeBSD. Anyone know of a cert. program for them?

Wish I had played more with the *BSDs, what I have seen I very much like. And of course slack uses bsd init, which I greatly prefer over sysv... so I don't know much else about them really, but if I had some time I would love to learn. Certifications for BSD exist, primarily I think for BSD/OS, look around windriver.com and maybe ask on IRC and/or Usenet in BSD areas? Wish I could be more helpful...

Re:RPMHell

[Saint Aardvark]

Debian -- well, yes, it does work -- mostly. The trouble comes in when you want a newer version of foo than is available. Doubtless through my own ignorance, I've ended up hosing myself by trying to go back from -testing to -stable. I suspect it's my own ignorance working against me. Don't let that put you off Debian.

Thanks for the tip re: windriver; hadn't thought of that.