Comment Re:Okay what does LTSP give me. (Score 1) 349
There is plenty of documentation regarding LTSP. There are several distros that you can use. LTSP can be added on to just about any distro. K12LTSP and SkoleLinux are two that I have used that don't require extensive configuration during installation. For the most part they work out of the box and you do your hacks afterwards. There is plenty of documentation to help you get started, to troubleshoot and extend.
I think that the real advantages of thin clients are not only applied directly to you. They are applied to your technology related costs and those who use your computers.
I do volunteer work in a low income housing project that provides a computer center so that the residents can have access to computer resources (Internet, printers, office applications, graphics, IMs, etc). It is very modest and also underfunded. The thin clients, 10 total, that the residents use are P133s with 32MB or RAM, S3 video, SB16 compatible sound, floppy and CDROM. The server is an Athlon 2600 with 1GB SDRAM, 80GB SATA and gigabit ethernet.
When I came to this organization, the server was a P233MMX running Windows Server 2003 with 160MB SDRAM and a 6GB hard drive as a proxy server and router. The workstations were all running Windows 2000 Pro. Disk thrashing was going to shorten the life of these systems. The OSes were too bloated for the hardware and there was no print server. I ran an audit on the software licensing and did not like what I discovered. Worse yet, the organization did not have the financial resources for modern systems or full licensing.
It took 25 minutes for all the desktop systems to get to a desktop and 3 minutes just to launch any program. There had to be a better way. One month into the job with full support of my boss I was allowed to bring in an Open Source solution. Now spend the majority of my time developing, teaching and administering instead of fighting with bloated OSes and malware.
LTSP gives me more time to help people learn to use software applications and networked resources at a lower cost. With a minimum of training, my clients can get thier computer related tasks done just as quickly as working with Windows.
K12LTSP, which is currently based on Fedora Core 3, runs quite well. Instead of using KDE as the graphical environment, I use IceWM due to the lower resource usage. While KDE was adequate, I get better overall performance using IceWM and I have a little more control, through obfusication and permissions, over what software the residents have access too. If an application isn't available in the main menu, it can be added in about a minute or started from an xterm. IceWM has already been skinned to look similar to Windows 95/98/XP and MacOS, so when someone new comes in, they're aren't totally lost. UI customization is allowed for those that know how or are willing to learn. Local floppy and CDROM is provided through Samba and now there is actually very little I have to do other than show people how to use the software and, of course, administer the LTSP server, the print server and the router.
Not everyone is a business user. I'm sure that the majority of us can agree that Average User requires, at minimum, an Internet connection, web browser, email client, instant messenger, word processor and a printer. OpenOffice replaces Office, Firefox (with Flash and Java) for IE, Kopete for AOL, ICQ, MSN, and Yahoo messengers, Scribus instead of Publisher, Kontact for a PIM, Thunderbird for Outlook Express, The GIMP instead of Photoshop, Adobe 7 (standalone and browser plugin), plus the entire games collection and KDE Edutainment collection (great for kids) and other utilities and miscellaneous applications. Most folks that use the computers are content with a web browser and office suite. Occasionally, I have to show people how to use the floppy and CDROM; a task that takes less than 2 minutes and these people are not just casual users, they're doing more than surf the net and checking email.
The performance enhancement comes from being able to use a system such as a Pentium 133 with only 32 MB of RAM to use software that normally requires a minimum of a P233MMX and 64MB of RAM or better. I only need one fast machine to service all the clients. Which leads to...
The savings benefit comes from being able to use those 8 year old computers for (potentially) another 5 years and that it only cost the price of 4 blank CDs to obtain the software and a $700 computer to run it.
Now I'm in cruise control and problems are minimal. Hardware problems are few and far between and are quick and inexpensive to fix. Daily backup protects my user's data.
In relation to the parent article. I don't think Windows thin clients will be nearly as cost effective except under certain conditions like preexisting infrastructure and the need for hardware compatibility.
There would need to be a server to run the thin client from, otherwise it's not a true thin client. Windows will cost money for the thin client server. Since, the thin client is also licensed, that costs more money. Windows hardware requirements are more than double what is required by LTSP. P233MMX and 64MB RAM? I can do just well on a P133 and 32MB RAM, thank you, and others out there have done well with 486s with 16MB.
However, the clear advantage for Microsoft is in hardware compatibility. Many more devices are supported under Windows than Linux, especially devices such as softmodems. Sorry but modems aren't going the way of the dinosaur just yet. Flexibility in hardware choices and compatible drivers - I believe that this is just what you will pay for.
Preexisting infrastructure makes it easier for Windows thin clients. No doubt, MS will provide tools to do the job. MS has had decades to position itself into dominance and is very hard to ignore.
But, interestingly enough, could it be that Microsoft be trying to catch up with products like Knoppix?
Probably. But all I know is that I don't have to shell out for $10,000 in computers every 5-7 years and the clients are quite happy.
I think that the real advantages of thin clients are not only applied directly to you. They are applied to your technology related costs and those who use your computers.
I do volunteer work in a low income housing project that provides a computer center so that the residents can have access to computer resources (Internet, printers, office applications, graphics, IMs, etc). It is very modest and also underfunded. The thin clients, 10 total, that the residents use are P133s with 32MB or RAM, S3 video, SB16 compatible sound, floppy and CDROM. The server is an Athlon 2600 with 1GB SDRAM, 80GB SATA and gigabit ethernet.
When I came to this organization, the server was a P233MMX running Windows Server 2003 with 160MB SDRAM and a 6GB hard drive as a proxy server and router. The workstations were all running Windows 2000 Pro. Disk thrashing was going to shorten the life of these systems. The OSes were too bloated for the hardware and there was no print server. I ran an audit on the software licensing and did not like what I discovered. Worse yet, the organization did not have the financial resources for modern systems or full licensing.
It took 25 minutes for all the desktop systems to get to a desktop and 3 minutes just to launch any program. There had to be a better way. One month into the job with full support of my boss I was allowed to bring in an Open Source solution. Now spend the majority of my time developing, teaching and administering instead of fighting with bloated OSes and malware.
LTSP gives me more time to help people learn to use software applications and networked resources at a lower cost. With a minimum of training, my clients can get thier computer related tasks done just as quickly as working with Windows.
K12LTSP, which is currently based on Fedora Core 3, runs quite well. Instead of using KDE as the graphical environment, I use IceWM due to the lower resource usage. While KDE was adequate, I get better overall performance using IceWM and I have a little more control, through obfusication and permissions, over what software the residents have access too. If an application isn't available in the main menu, it can be added in about a minute or started from an xterm. IceWM has already been skinned to look similar to Windows 95/98/XP and MacOS, so when someone new comes in, they're aren't totally lost. UI customization is allowed for those that know how or are willing to learn. Local floppy and CDROM is provided through Samba and now there is actually very little I have to do other than show people how to use the software and, of course, administer the LTSP server, the print server and the router.
Not everyone is a business user. I'm sure that the majority of us can agree that Average User requires, at minimum, an Internet connection, web browser, email client, instant messenger, word processor and a printer. OpenOffice replaces Office, Firefox (with Flash and Java) for IE, Kopete for AOL, ICQ, MSN, and Yahoo messengers, Scribus instead of Publisher, Kontact for a PIM, Thunderbird for Outlook Express, The GIMP instead of Photoshop, Adobe 7 (standalone and browser plugin), plus the entire games collection and KDE Edutainment collection (great for kids) and other utilities and miscellaneous applications. Most folks that use the computers are content with a web browser and office suite. Occasionally, I have to show people how to use the floppy and CDROM; a task that takes less than 2 minutes and these people are not just casual users, they're doing more than surf the net and checking email.
The performance enhancement comes from being able to use a system such as a Pentium 133 with only 32 MB of RAM to use software that normally requires a minimum of a P233MMX and 64MB of RAM or better. I only need one fast machine to service all the clients. Which leads to...
The savings benefit comes from being able to use those 8 year old computers for (potentially) another 5 years and that it only cost the price of 4 blank CDs to obtain the software and a $700 computer to run it.
Now I'm in cruise control and problems are minimal. Hardware problems are few and far between and are quick and inexpensive to fix. Daily backup protects my user's data.
In relation to the parent article. I don't think Windows thin clients will be nearly as cost effective except under certain conditions like preexisting infrastructure and the need for hardware compatibility.
There would need to be a server to run the thin client from, otherwise it's not a true thin client. Windows will cost money for the thin client server. Since, the thin client is also licensed, that costs more money. Windows hardware requirements are more than double what is required by LTSP. P233MMX and 64MB RAM? I can do just well on a P133 and 32MB RAM, thank you, and others out there have done well with 486s with 16MB.
However, the clear advantage for Microsoft is in hardware compatibility. Many more devices are supported under Windows than Linux, especially devices such as softmodems. Sorry but modems aren't going the way of the dinosaur just yet. Flexibility in hardware choices and compatible drivers - I believe that this is just what you will pay for.
Preexisting infrastructure makes it easier for Windows thin clients. No doubt, MS will provide tools to do the job. MS has had decades to position itself into dominance and is very hard to ignore.
But, interestingly enough, could it be that Microsoft be trying to catch up with products like Knoppix?
Probably. But all I know is that I don't have to shell out for $10,000 in computers every 5-7 years and the clients are quite happy.
