I'm a seasoned software warrior, and have had my share of fights with management over deliverable product... They never ended. . . Management always won. . . like the Law does in some rock n roll songs. . . and I got blamed for the bugs, unless I signed off on some bug list that would go with me to my grave. . . Whats my point? Software is not determined by programmers, developers, whatever you want to call us sorry brave souls who dare to burn the candle on both ends to produce quality product