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Comment Re:Hmm.... (Score 5, Interesting) 275

Tada: it's a micronation... in space!

Of course it's unrealistic armchair-libertarian drivel: the magnetosphere is a harsh mistress, after all.

What's interesting about this development is that it isn't a nearly-entirely American endeavour, which is often the case with such ambitions; Asgardia seems to be Russian and the AIRC supporting it is Viennese. I suspect we'll see a lot more anti-authoritarian behaviour from Europeans in the coming years as a) the EU weakens, b) the Internet transmits political memes that were previously comparatively contained by media limitations like talk radio and poor English literacy, and c) people already exposed to (b) come of age.

The much more feasible version of "let's get off the Earth so we can get away from our countries' laws" is called seasteading, and generally involves a platform in international waters. There's one clear non-Libertarian, non-American example of seasteading (Sealand, UK) which is fairly old and unusually successful by micronation standards. These days, however, the idea is generally associated with these guys, who have been funded by Peter Thiel. They, unquestionably, are primarily concerned with ways to dodge regulation. Without a realistic means of building such a gigantic physical presence, though, they certainly aren't going to be doing much of that; at best they'd end up creating their own passports that no one would accept.

Comment Re: Who cares? (Score 1) 177

But you have never actually presented scientific evidence
My phrasing was deliberate - you are hand-waving away the vast amount of evidence that's out there, not just what I'm presenting. I'm pretty sure you know how to use Google too, and don't need to rely on me to lead you to it.

This isn't even new stuff - I'm mainly working off the memory of a deep dive I did into this topic about ten years ago; not much has changed since then.

Also, please see note (*1) above.

Comment Re: Who cares? (Score 1) 177

And now we've come full circle. Let me see if I can recap this conversation.

anon: There's no data
me: here's data
you: but not controlled studies
me: here are controlled studies
you: but not the right kind of controlled studies
me: here's a report with descriptions and references to controlled studies about harms (surgeon general's report, I linked it above).
you: I haven't seen a positive study(*1). And it's all political(*2).

(*1) Yet later you talk about the 'the very few that dare report any negative finding', implying you think that most have a positive finding.

(*2) You should look at the sources in that report - many come from places like Japan, Switzerland, China, and a number of other countries. I really doubt the political constraints that you think exist are going to apply everywhere on the planet.

If you're just going to hand-wave away the huge amount of evidence that's out there, then continuing this part of the conversation is kinda pointless. So, I'm going to move on to speculating about your motives and politics. Some possibilities on your agenda here:
- You work for a tobacco firm in some capacity, and have let your paycheck skew your reasoning.
- You have been exposing family and friends to second-hand smoke, and are trying to find a rationalization for your behavior.
- You like arguing.
- You like being the special guy who can see though the vast conspiracies in this world, and next you'll want to move on to discussing WTC7 and thermite.

Any other explanations you want to offer?

Comment Re: Who cares? (Score 1) 177

From Wikipedia:
Ad hominem ... in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

You could dispute whether your statement was a fallacious argument or not, but it was indeed an ad hominem attack.

I would note that it was a pointless argument, since it is unlikely any of the same individuals were involved (if the CDC was involved at all), and one issue of this nature does not point to 'a history of poor reasoning'. It just points to the fact that science is never finished.

BTW, the 'current advice' on second-hand smoke dates to at least 1986. There's been quite a bit of time for someone to find issue with the conclusions; I'm not aware of that happening in any legitimate context.

Comment Re: Who cares? (Score 1) 177

My apologies. I failed to interpret your note about the lack of 'an actual controlled study' as referring to 'an actual controlled study about X'.

If you really want to learn about the dangers of second-hand smoke, you could try reference #3 from the fact sheet, entitled 'The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke'. There you will find executive summaries and overviews of the report, as well as links to the complete report. You can even get everything in a convenient pdf format.

Technically, this publication is not 'an actual controlled study'; instead it is built on a large number of controlled studies. I would suggest that it meets any reasonable criteria for your controlled study requirement.

Comment Re: Who cares? (Score 1) 177

... estimated ...
And then they supplied a number of references and data to describe how they came to that estimate. It's a carefully chosen term; if they'd used something more absolute you'd be whining about that too. But it doesn't mean they just made a number up, despite your claim to the contrary.

... believed ...
I can't find the section you're referring to, but a report like that is going to include reports on the efficacy of consumer information campaigns. Its existence in the report is not proof they used this belief as data for the estimate, even though that's what you are implying.

What you should worry about are your paranoia and ignorance.
So you're not trying to have an adult conversation, are you.

imply with a lot of confidence that the risk below certain exposure is so insignificant that it is impossible to measure.
That's actually a legitimate point; if you weren't so busy being an ass, I might consider discussing it with you.

Comment Re: Who cares? (Score 1) 177

If there's a link to an actual controlled study anywhere in there, I can't find it.
What was wrong with the link I used in my comment? That study, which was reference #8 in the fact sheet, describes its methodology, shows its data, and has a couple dozen more references if you want to get further into it.

Brought to you by the same people who recommended transfat laden margarine for your health.
And? What does that ad hominem have to do with the work of a completely different group of scientists?
It's the way of science - when we learn more, we sometimes find that we made mistakes before. If you're only going to accept information from people who have never been wrong, you're not going to learn much.
PS - I can't find where the CDC itself recommended margarine. Have a link?

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