LawfulGood's Journal: Is God's moral code arbitrary?

In response to:

Is God's moral code arbitrary?

Sweet! Very insightful. If I had any mod points, they'd be all yours. Except... then I wouldn't be able to reply... so.. um... nevermind... :)

The reason I ask this question is that if God's moral code is arbitrary, it makes sense to ask why we should follow it, other than fear of punishment. If God's moral code is necessary, then it seems as though humans could eventually arive at it through enough thought and experience...
Your question is very similar to one used by Socrates to befuddle poor Euthyphro. To paraphrase you (and Socrates) the question is, what's the cause/effect relationship between God and goodness. Does God will something because it's good or is it good merely because God wills it?

1. The Good -> God's Will
2. God's Will -> The Good

Option one leaves God subject to some higher power, which would defy his omnipotence. In this case, God would need to have the Ten Commandments hanging on his wall to refer too. :)

Option two makes God arbitrary and capable of issuing abhorrent commands, and making those commands "good." Which makes him indistinguishable from a tyrant.

Where I believe Socrates to be in error (if I may be so bold... he would consider it a service to be questioned) is his implicit assumption that The Good and God's will are different and related as a cause and effect. My answer (well, it's been around long before me, but I adopt it :)) is that The Good is God's own nature, and God always wills in accordance with his nature. So the relationship is:

1. The Good == God's Will

God cannot do the logically impossible. And it is logically impossible for God to do the ungodly. So God cannot issue evil commands because he IS good. God's commands are good because they are always in accord with his own nature.

Cool!

[calebb]

Cool reply! That question reminds me of "Can God create a rock so big He can't lift it?" ...the problem lies in the question, not the answer :-)

Re:Cool!

[LawfulGood]

Heh. Exactly! People come up with all sorts of meaningless contradictions and then put "Can God" in front of them. As if adding those two words should turn gibberish into something that makes sense...

Re:Cool!

[Another MacHack]

I appreciate your willingness to have this conversation. My aim in asking the question was more to try to understand your conception of the nature of good, as opposed to trying to pose a paradox. My doubtless clumsy attempt at an allegory to further get at my point is posted as a reply to the original article, but I'll repost it here, since it's off-topic in the original forum.

Re:Cool!

[Another MacHack]

I see the possible attempt at an omnipotence paradox there, but that wasn't where I was trying to go.

I infer you side more with option 1, except that it's logical necessity rather than impotence that "constrains" God, which is to say it's no constraint at all. [By which I mean, "I basically agree with what you said, given your assumptions"]

Let me try another approach, then. The question I'm about to ask is specifically -not- about salvation or about works vs faith. At least, I don't think it is ;)

Suppose

Re:Cool!

[LawfulGood]

Very penetrating question. I'm honored that you're interested in my opinion

Let me try another approach, then. The question I'm about to ask is specifically -not- about salvation or about works vs faith. At least, I don't think it is ;)
LOL! You want a Christian not to address salvation?! I'll have someone bring my straight-jacket and restrain me. Just kidding. I'll try to stick with the straight moral issues. :-)

Suppose someone were to try to figure out Good from first principles and deep thought