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Comment Re:If management doesn't know what PM is... (Score 1) 171

Ha!

Thanks, that was actually my intent. I'd better patent "bolding text as the OP in a forum so all topic consumers can quickly identify the OP replies. Optionally add color so it stands out even more. Optionally italicize the text so it stands out even more."

Oh, right. That would be off topic.

Cheers.

Comment Re:A little humility goes a long way.... (Score 2) 171

Not harsh at all. I regretted using the word "crap" the instant I submitted the post. And after reading the whole thing again, I tend to agree with a lot of what you said. I think I'm still feeling insulted that they would ask me to take on added responsibility but then not offer to pay me to do so. My post reflects that defensiveness.

Thank you for the harsh realities. Your reply is humbling. I agree with the bulk of your reply, but not necessarily with the conclusions about me that you've drawn. I'll seriously consider what you've said here though, and think twice about why I even want the job. Believe it or not, the most disturbing thing you said was that you think I lack the interpersonal skills to develop the necessary relationships with employees to motivate them ... and I was thinking that was one of my strengths.

Hard to tell from one post, so I'm hoping you're not clairvoyant and are wrong about this one. I'm a humble person with a little lack of confidence, trying to convince myself otherwise. Sometime not very good at it.

Thanks again for taking the time. I do appreciate it.

Comment Re:You are being played (Score 1, Informative) 171

It's a pretty flat structure and all the SysAdmins in my grade wear a lot of hats. Supervisor of 10 to begin with, potentially more. Far more than scheduling shifts and tasks. Budgeting, planning, software/hardware/technology selection, contract negotiations, etc.

I'll report to Director who in turn reports to VP who reports to CEO.

Yup ... will be dealing directly with senior management.

Comment Re:Business Value (Score 2) 171

Thanks to both of you for the thoughtful replies. I was going to reply to bastardchyld when I read that post, but delayed just long enough for this one to come in ahead of me.

I really, truly appreciate the input ... not just from you two but from all the others who've volunteered their time. I hope this Ask Slashdot will help others in similar situations.

Cheers.

Comment Re:If management doesn't know what PM is... (Score 1) 171

This one cracked me up. I was offended, but am not any more. Nope, they're not trying to hide me. I've had kind of a Midas touch here. Everything I touch and major changes I've recommended turn to gold. It's been a fantastic run.

I actually kind of understand their rational, it just feels like the numbers (market valuation and surveys) and the semantics (define "leadership" to mean whatever it is I don't have) are manipulated to their advantage.

So, I truly believe the reason they've asked me to do this is because I will be good at it and I will be more valuable in this new role than in the current. I really do believe that.

Thanks for the chuckle.

Comment Re:I wouldn't want you as a manager (Score 1, Informative) 171

Pardon me for clarifying, I do appreciate your taking the time to reply.

I am asking for a clear description of the difference between project management skills and people management skills, you have not actually enlightened me one bit.

I have a fantastic relationship with my management (really, and truly ... they love me) or they would not be asking me to do this. They have total confidence that I'll do a great job in this role, as do I. I've managed people in unrelated fields and have been quite successful at builting teams in very awkward and even hostile situations.

While I call myself a hack, I think I stated that I'm pretty darned good at all those things I've done, especially when I'm submerged in them. I'm an excellent teacher, trained professionally as one in fact and have imparted past skills on subordinates. I have passed along the PM skills that I can, while not being charged with doing so. Some around me are improving at those skills ... I never stated that I was not doing that.

So, with this added information ... do you possibly have anything constructive to add? Or is there some underlying reason why you're so bitter towards a total stranger looking for guidance? If you'd like to share those problems, I'd certainly like to offer constructive guidance if I'm able to, and maybe help you to heal yourself.

Seriously. Lighten up, Dude.

IT

Submission + - Valuation Comparison: Skilled Admins vs Contributing Supervisors

HappyDude writes: Sorry about the long-winded post. I think a little background might help.

I've been asked to manage a department in our IT group. It's comprised of UNIX, VMWare, Citrix, EMC and HP SAN Admins, Technicians and Help Desk personnel. The group covers the spectrum in years of experience.

I am a 20-year Admin veteran of Engineering and Health Care IT systems including UNIX, Oracle DBA, Apache HTTP/Tomcat, WebSphere, software design plus other sundry jack-of-all-trades kinds of stuff. Although I consider myself a hack at most of those trades, I'm reasonably good at any one of them when I'm submerged.

I also have 10 years of Project Management experience in Engineering and Health Care related IT organizations. I do have formal PM training, but haven't bothered to seek credentialing.

I'm being told that I'll be worth less to the organization as a supervisor than what I'm making now, but the earning potential is greater if I accept the management position. Out of the kindness of their hearts, they're offering to start me in the new position at the same wage I'm currently making.

I think their rational is crap, the primary reason behind their valuation being that I have no leadership experience. I would be a "rookie" supervisor with no more value than a 4-year grad coming in off the street. It seems a couple things are missing from their calculations.

One is that they don't give me credit for the "global" projects I've led to complete success (completed on time, under budget, all goals met, blah, blah, blah). Apparently PM doesn't have anything to do with leadership in their eyes. My current employer doesn't actually understand what PM is and has no one with the skills I have who actually practices it other than me.

How would you recommend I "educate" our HR department about what real PM is all about and convince them that it sure as hell does satisfy their leadership experience requirement?

The other thing missing (in my mind) is a fair valuation of my current skills, or of the worth of a supervisor skilled in almost all of the trades I'll be managing. They use "market" analysis data from a 3rd party when gauging salaries, probably like most employers do ... but I know individuals in my field who wouldn't even talk to these folks for a starting wage less than 25% greater than what I'm currently making.

HR suggested if I could provide adequate data that contradicts or adequately augments theirs, they would reconsider.

How would I go about gathering that kind of data, from reputable sources, that would even stand a chance of these people's paradigms?

As a final request, can you please provide me with first-hand knowledge of salary ranges for the two positions described? Maybe I'm all wet, but I think I'm a steal at wage I'm being paid right now. This whole thing kinda pisses me off!

Cheers, All.

Comment Re:Terrible (Score 0) 380

I never thought it would come to this but God Damnit. I have to agree with you on this one. To hell with recall ... Nuke them all. Bunch of Corporate Shills, doing the bidding of their Corporate Masters. They don't give a shit about the People in this country. Time to start seriously considering ways to make the change.

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