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Journal FroMan's Journal: Foolishness... 22

Journal by FroMan

Spain's new leader will be pulling out of Iraq. Have they been taking appeasement lessons from France? I would have hoped that Spain would have a bigger backbone than this.

Then, for a twist of irony, France is calling an emergency EU meeting because of the Spain attacks last week. Personally I would hope that these meetings might cover something other than the proper protocol for surrendering to terrorists.

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Foolishness... More

Foolishness...

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  • But the Spanish electorate have spoken. Their choice. Nothing you or I can do about it, except deal with it.

    France is right to be concerned - the thing about Europe is that most of the constituent nations are on the same piece of land, so it's a lot easier for the terrorists to move around, in theory.

    -MT.
    • Nothing you or I can do about it, except deal with it.

      Now you are over in England MT, right? How does your comment here and johndiii's below stike you?

      Personally I would be quite worried, not so much for my own life, but for the lives of my country people if I lived in any EU country. I certainly think I would be taking a couple days off work around elections and staying pretty close to home (or atleast avoid any moderately large gathering place).
      • Personally I would be quite worried, not so much for my own life, but for the lives of my country people if I lived in any EU country. I certainly think I would be taking a couple days off work around elections and staying pretty close to home (or atleast avoid any moderately large gathering place).

        Which is what the terrorists want. Complete disruption of the activities of the target nation.

        The UK has plenty of experience of local terror campaigns, as have several of our European neighbours (France, Germ
  • ...immediately prior to elections. Whether or not this one actually affected the outcome, it seems likely that it will be perceived as having done so.

  • Spanish cowards (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Tenfish ( 748408 )
    You didn't mention that Spain's new leadership is socialist. I read the news reports yesterday, and as soon as I saw that, I knew they would be pulling out of Iraq.

    The socialists haven't lost the cold war (yet). Spain wasn't our friend (over 90% opposed Spanish help in Iraq) and they certainly aren't our friends now.

    If anyone here thinks that the commies have all left the building, and all we're fighting now is terrorists, you're sadly mistaken.
    • Well, in theory the UK government is socialist. In theory, that is - you'd be hard pressed to find any evidence... :)

      -MT.
      • In theory its a monarchy too. ;-)

        Assuming you are refering to redistribution of wealth as socialistic, what is your tax rates?

        While I would not refer to the US as socialistic, yet, the government is certainly are taking more and more of my money each year and redistributing it to others.
    • I have not done too much reading into the Spanish politics as to know which way any of the parties lean. And simpley because a party has "socialist" in the name does not mean that they are truly socialist. Granted compared to our political system even their (EUians) conservative parties tend to look a lot more like our (USians) Democrats.

      Either way, I still think their idea of pulling their troops out is a bad idea and will only serve as encouragement to terrorists.
    • Howcome people mark me as flamebait? I wasn't flaming anyone.

      Anyway, something that everyone seems to have forgotten is that the Ba'ath party (Saddam Hussein's party) is the same thing as the Islamic Socialists.

      So, let me get this straight. Spain elects socialists, and pulls out of Iraq, where Socialists are currently doing as much terrorism as they can manage to try to retake their country.

      Now, why exactly again was I moderated flamebait? Perhaps it is some socialist sympathizers (probably atheists too)
      • Howcome people mark me as flamebait? I wasn't flaming anyone.

        Read that word very carefully -- flamebait. In other words, it's likely to cause flaming.

        Anyway, something that everyone seems to have forgotten is that the Ba'ath party (Saddam Hussein's party) is the same thing as the Islamic Socialists.

        So, let me get this straight. Spain elects socialists, and pulls out of Iraq, where Socialists are currently doing as much terrorism as they can manage to try to retake their country.

        You seem quite determined

        • You seem quite determined to portray socialists as terrorists.

          The other way around. COMPLETELY the other way around.

          Our current terrorist targets like Iraq were also Socialist. That's what the Ba'ath party was! Am I the only person here who knows this?

          • As I already said in the part of that paragraph that you conveniently didn't quote, being socialist is not the same as as claiming to be. A lot of non-socialist regimes like to describe themselves as socialist since it disguises their true intentions. The fascist regime in Germany during WW2 claimed it was socialist, while it is quite clear from its actions that it was a fascist regime (the exact opposite of socialism).

            I'll just repeat it: socialism is a type of political system that characterizes itself by

  • I think the "never give in to terrorism" attitude tends to be motivated by some kind of national machismo - we don't give in because not because we honestly think it is dangerous to do so, but because it would hurt our pride. While not justifying what terrorists have done, I think it is very fair to acknowledge that they have a right to be angry with the way Washington has behaved. The situation is way too complicated to be just "they hate our freedom so they attacked us, and we must never give in", and
    • I think the "never give in to terrorism" attitude tends to be motivated by some kind of national machismo - we don't give in because not because we honestly think it is dangerous to do so, but because it would hurt our pride. While not justifying what terrorists have done, I think it is very fair to acknowledge that they have a right to be angry with the way Washington has behaved.

      Bull-four-letter-words.

      Never give in to terrorism has nothing to do with national pride. It has to do with setting a preced
      • I originally wrote something longer, but will just write what I closed with, because it pretty much makes my other points irrelevant:

        Finally, it is worth mentioning how I think there is a general disconnect between the ideals of Christianity and how we view terrorism. Do we love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us? It's really hard. However we can't forget the road to Damascus, in which the Osama bin Ladin of his time became one of the greatest saints of the Church. A lot of our attitudes

    • I think the "never give in to terrorism" attitude tends to be motivated by some kind of national machismo - we don't give in because not because we honestly think it is dangerous to do so, but because it would hurt our pride.

      Do you think that maybe it's bad to give in to terrorism because, I don't know, they're trying to kill us?! It's difficult to come to a negotiated solution with someone who's expressed goal is convert you to Islam (or any other religion) or kill you. I consider it more a matter of
      • Do you think that maybe it's bad to give in to terrorism because, I don't know, they're trying to kill us?! It's difficult to come to a negotiated solution with someone who's expressed goal is convert you to Islam (or any other religion) or kill you. I consider it more a matter of self preservation than one of national pride or ego.

        Thats a pretty simple (and inaccurate) view of the motives of terrorists. If the US were truly acting out of self preservation, we'd stop kicking the hornet's nest that is the

        • we'd stop kicking the hornet's nest that is the Middle East.

          You are missing the point. The objective is to root out the evil that is there that we know about. If you want to flesh out this analogy here it is:

          A while back in college I had a vehicle that I simpley did not drive for about three months in the summer. The time came for me to move the car because there were actually hornets nests all over it and it was becoming an liability for me to leave the car parked there, else people were going to ge
          • You are missing the point. The objective is to root out the evil that is there that we know about.

            There are two separate, but important issue involved. First, are the actions of the govenment securing the interests of people in this country. Second, what are the motivations behind the actions. I think it's important to answer both questions because of the way that governemnts work.

            Regarding the first question, I think the action in Afghanistan was fairly defensible, while the action in Iraq was not.

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