Comment Re:Trust them (Score 1) 2067
After all of these posts from successful Eagle Scout/Honors Students, I have to point out that you are all missing the point. Having a child that is an honor student/eagle scout/whatever does not mean that he or she is an upstanding person, nor does it mean that he or she won't find a way to get access to all of the things that are forbidden to them.
As a recent graduate from high school, I know what at least my high school was like. I can't speak for all schools, of course, but mine was considered to be one of the better ones in the state.
From my experience, people in school clubs, people that were in the top 10% of our class, people that were succeeding in every aspect of high school were just as likely as everyone else to go out to a party and get plowed. Kids get into some clubs because of social prestige and they do well in school for many reasons.
I speak from the perspective of someone who never did terribly well in school, for reasons that are beyond the scope of what is relevant to this discussion. I have long hair and facial hair, wear shirts from my favorite bands, and generally end up not wearing trendy clothing. I never was in very many clubs, though I was in band for 6 years before I quit due to general dislike of the experience. I am very politically and socially liberal, and believe many things that people find morally reprehensible should be legal. I am not religious in the least.
Now that being said, I never tried drugs, I have never smoked, I have never had sex, I have had alcohol only twice in my life, both times in the presence of my parents, and the most I drank in one sitting was a glass of champagne and a glass of wine. I was a national merit semifinalist and scored a 1550 on my SAT and am currently sitting in my dorm at the University of Texas.
There is no way you can tell whether kids are going to abuse any of the afformentioned things based on their activities in high school.
So why didn't I end up falling into the hippie and/or druggie persona that I so resembled? I don't know entirely, of course, but though I chafed at some of their rules (as all teenagers do) my parents were very lenient. Sure, I was grounded a lot for bad grades, but my parents' policies on other things were very focused on personal responisbility. My mother had something that she called a "no bitch" policy. She made sure that I knew that if I ever got drunk and couldn't find a sober ride home, I could call her at any time, and she would come and pick me up. She promised not to give me a hard time at all, because she realized that my returning home safely was the most important thing and that if I wanted to go get drunk, I could, and the choice would be left to me no matter her rules. Instead my parents focused on helping me make the right choices.
What it comes down to is that you as a parent, no matter how many rules you set down, can never take the choices out of your kids hands. You can delay them, you can make your child hide them from you, but they will still be made eventually. I am what I am today not because my parents tried to make my choices for me, but rather because my parents realized that that was impossible.
On a separate note, there has been a repeated theme of earning of trust/privacy and whether or not children have a right to their own personal space.
The first point that needs to be made is that there is a vast distinction between respecting someone and showing respect. After spending so much time with authority figures demanding respect of me, I came to realize that they were never getting the respect they demanded. They were only getting people to show respect. I was as polite and responsive to them as was required, but only those people that truly earned my respect and trust got an inch more than that. Positive learning will always therefore be more powerful and successful than negative learning. If a kid learns to do things becuase he or she fears the punishment that will be dealt out by a parent if he or she does not, the effect will last until the parent leaves the room (metaphorically) and the kid will grow to dislike the parent. If the parent builds mutual respect and trust, however, and justifies not doing unacceptable things to the kid with more than just "because I said so" *gasp* a lot more is gained. The key is mutual. How can your child respect and trust you if you don't respect or trust him or her?
Privacy is interrelated with trust, but is an interesting issue in its own way. The main issue is that while privacy should be given to a child if at all possible, in some cases it is not feasible. How can a parent know what issues the child is facing when he or she knows nothing abou the child's life? Ideally, there is enough trust built that the kid will not have too many issues in communicating with parents, but this will not always be the case, so there is a limit to the extent of the privacy, and therefore the trust. The limits should be far and few between, though, mostly to prevent serious mishaps. Meeting 45 year old men posing as teenage girls can be avoided with only minimal intrusion into the child's life. Especially with the many stories about related tragedies, it should not be a big deal to make sure kids know that they should talk to the parent before they meet anyone from the internet. Yes, I didn't say that such meetings should be completely banned. Meeting people off the internet can be as safe as anything if proper percautions are taking, such as meeting with a group of friends in a public place and doing some checking on a person's identity before such a meeting takes place. It is easy for a 45 to impersonate a teenage girl on the internet, but how easy is it on the phone? Even if they somehow manage to get to the point where your child actual meets one of these 45 year old weirdos, it won't take long for a large number of friends in a brightly lit area with lots of people to realize that something is wrong when a middle-aged man shows up. If a child knows that a meeting like the one they want to plan will be against your rules as a parent, you won't get to help make sure the plans are safe if they decide to do it without telling you.
Some supervision, of course, is required, but you are going to have to let go of the back of that bike seat at some point. You can only help make sure that when you finally let go, you will have taught your child enough so that the worst he will come out with is a few cuts that will heal.
As a recent graduate from high school, I know what at least my high school was like. I can't speak for all schools, of course, but mine was considered to be one of the better ones in the state.
From my experience, people in school clubs, people that were in the top 10% of our class, people that were succeeding in every aspect of high school were just as likely as everyone else to go out to a party and get plowed. Kids get into some clubs because of social prestige and they do well in school for many reasons.
I speak from the perspective of someone who never did terribly well in school, for reasons that are beyond the scope of what is relevant to this discussion. I have long hair and facial hair, wear shirts from my favorite bands, and generally end up not wearing trendy clothing. I never was in very many clubs, though I was in band for 6 years before I quit due to general dislike of the experience. I am very politically and socially liberal, and believe many things that people find morally reprehensible should be legal. I am not religious in the least.
Now that being said, I never tried drugs, I have never smoked, I have never had sex, I have had alcohol only twice in my life, both times in the presence of my parents, and the most I drank in one sitting was a glass of champagne and a glass of wine. I was a national merit semifinalist and scored a 1550 on my SAT and am currently sitting in my dorm at the University of Texas.
There is no way you can tell whether kids are going to abuse any of the afformentioned things based on their activities in high school.
So why didn't I end up falling into the hippie and/or druggie persona that I so resembled? I don't know entirely, of course, but though I chafed at some of their rules (as all teenagers do) my parents were very lenient. Sure, I was grounded a lot for bad grades, but my parents' policies on other things were very focused on personal responisbility. My mother had something that she called a "no bitch" policy. She made sure that I knew that if I ever got drunk and couldn't find a sober ride home, I could call her at any time, and she would come and pick me up. She promised not to give me a hard time at all, because she realized that my returning home safely was the most important thing and that if I wanted to go get drunk, I could, and the choice would be left to me no matter her rules. Instead my parents focused on helping me make the right choices.
What it comes down to is that you as a parent, no matter how many rules you set down, can never take the choices out of your kids hands. You can delay them, you can make your child hide them from you, but they will still be made eventually. I am what I am today not because my parents tried to make my choices for me, but rather because my parents realized that that was impossible.
On a separate note, there has been a repeated theme of earning of trust/privacy and whether or not children have a right to their own personal space.
The first point that needs to be made is that there is a vast distinction between respecting someone and showing respect. After spending so much time with authority figures demanding respect of me, I came to realize that they were never getting the respect they demanded. They were only getting people to show respect. I was as polite and responsive to them as was required, but only those people that truly earned my respect and trust got an inch more than that. Positive learning will always therefore be more powerful and successful than negative learning. If a kid learns to do things becuase he or she fears the punishment that will be dealt out by a parent if he or she does not, the effect will last until the parent leaves the room (metaphorically) and the kid will grow to dislike the parent. If the parent builds mutual respect and trust, however, and justifies not doing unacceptable things to the kid with more than just "because I said so" *gasp* a lot more is gained. The key is mutual. How can your child respect and trust you if you don't respect or trust him or her?
Privacy is interrelated with trust, but is an interesting issue in its own way. The main issue is that while privacy should be given to a child if at all possible, in some cases it is not feasible. How can a parent know what issues the child is facing when he or she knows nothing abou the child's life? Ideally, there is enough trust built that the kid will not have too many issues in communicating with parents, but this will not always be the case, so there is a limit to the extent of the privacy, and therefore the trust. The limits should be far and few between, though, mostly to prevent serious mishaps. Meeting 45 year old men posing as teenage girls can be avoided with only minimal intrusion into the child's life. Especially with the many stories about related tragedies, it should not be a big deal to make sure kids know that they should talk to the parent before they meet anyone from the internet. Yes, I didn't say that such meetings should be completely banned. Meeting people off the internet can be as safe as anything if proper percautions are taking, such as meeting with a group of friends in a public place and doing some checking on a person's identity before such a meeting takes place. It is easy for a 45 to impersonate a teenage girl on the internet, but how easy is it on the phone? Even if they somehow manage to get to the point where your child actual meets one of these 45 year old weirdos, it won't take long for a large number of friends in a brightly lit area with lots of people to realize that something is wrong when a middle-aged man shows up. If a child knows that a meeting like the one they want to plan will be against your rules as a parent, you won't get to help make sure the plans are safe if they decide to do it without telling you.
Some supervision, of course, is required, but you are going to have to let go of the back of that bike seat at some point. You can only help make sure that when you finally let go, you will have taught your child enough so that the worst he will come out with is a few cuts that will heal.
