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Comment Re:A Waste? (Score 1) 309

And also completely wrong!

I'll admit that it was a momentarily amusing thought with no solid base, and that there are obviously a thousand other factors involved, but you're actually the one that's completely wrong.

If the US has the highest murder rate (which is the assumption you are basing this "proportion" on), then all countries with lower (or zero) execution rates (ie. the overwhelming majority (>90%) of countries in the world) would have lower murder rates.

Are you suggesting that they all have... higher murder rates instead? Does Slashdot not understand basic mathematical relationships anymore?

Inversely proportional means one stat goes up as the other goes down. The US has a higher homicide rate and a lower execution rate than the other four countries, therefore the relationship between homicide rate and execution rate is inversely proportional. This place used to have math nerds...

Comment Re:A Waste? (Score 1) 309

Ok, it seems that you are chinese.

Is this relevant, or are you already applying bias against the Chinese?

Why are trying so hard to criticize Falun Gong ?

Why are you questioning my motive, instead of my argument? I'm presenting cold hard evidence to support my argument, but you're just going for a cheap ad hominem shot.

They don't have a god, so I don't see why it should be called cult.

Did you read my post at all? Note the quote by the founder presenting himself as "the best god", not to mention all the references to higher beings and how much above "ordinary people" the writer is in the official Falun Gong books. If that doesn't fit into your definition of a cult I'm not sure what you think a cult is.

The Wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_gong [wikipedia.org]
clearly exposes China's techniques to demonize Falun Gong (calling it a cult).

I don't deny that China has been running a smear campaign on Falun Gong, but Falun Gong seems to be doing a much better job of a smear campaign against the government. Based on previous point, I would say it's fair to call them a cult.

But more importantly, do you think their members deserve death ?

Why do you think that? I didn't say they deserve death. Or is that your own biased view that anyone who questions Falun Gong must be trying to persecute the members by seeking their deaths? I see Falun Gong's indoctrination has worked well.

If you think so, you have a real problem, because you are completely endoctrined by the national propaganda.

Even though I didn't repeat one line of "national (I assume you mean Chinese?) propaganda". In fact, I have never even read any "national propaganda" on the issue before today. All my quotes are from researching primary sources, one being the official Falun Gong teachings, the other being a reporter who worked firsthand with Falun Gong. So without a single shred of evidence, how did you conclude that I'm indoctrinated by propaganda? Or am I simply that way because all Chinese (as you assume I must be) who are critical of Falun Gong must have been thoroughly brainwashed for the government and unable to process facts for themselves? Aren't these assumptions the truly scary brainwashing? Ironic, in a way.

Following your point of view, I'm pretty sure that Tibetans also deserve death.

Even the government doesn't advocate the death of Tibetans (notice that they do not advocate the death of Falun Gong practitioners either...), so I'm assuming this is another case of too much Western media coolaid.

Finally, I'd like to add another point:
when a country has real (and unsolvable) problems piling up, they try to find scapegoats.
In Germany in the 30s, they used the Jews as scapegoats.

Now, China is just attacking everybody that refuse their model, starting by the people in their own country, and slowly attacking people in their neighbourhood.
Since China concentrates so much power (and money !) now, I hope they won't try to dominate the whole world, like the Germans in their time.

Wow, so Godwin was your last point? Well played.
Since as you say China has so much power and money, what are their real, unsolvable problems?

Comment Re:A Waste? (Score 1) 309

Basically, it's a large sect, which teaches QiGong.

I don't think sect means what you think it means. The proper word for a religious organization is a cult. And it most definitely is a religious cult, since the founder basically claims to be a divine being and teaches his followers to militantly defend his "law"

The PRC government has historically encouraged Qigong and other traditional art forms. Hell, it's pretty much categorized as a medical science in China. Non-Falun Gong Qigong certainly isn't prosecuted, I used to see groups of old people practicing in formation every morning. In fact, in 1982 the government passed a policy to not promote, debate, or criticize Qigong (I can't find a detailed explanation of this policy in English, but here's the source in Chinese). If it's simply Qigong, why do people cling to it so resolutely? Would you set yourself on fire to protest the government banning yoga, or at least go around passing out pamphlets about how great yoga is on street corners and university campuses? It's obviously a little more hardcore than plain Qigong.

Have you read the actual teachings of Falun Gong? Before you put the face of the well-meaning mystic on Falun Gong, check out their publications. Here are a few choice snippets.

We've found that when a person is born, many, many him are born at the same time within a certain range of the space of this universe.

They found that? Really?

When a person is born, his whole life is already laid out there in a specific dimension. Meaning, where he is in his life, what he's supposed to do, and so onâ"it's all there. So who arranged his life? It's obviously done by higher beings.

The fact is, qigong treatments can't be like ordinary people's healing methods - it's not an ordinary person's skill. It's something higher. And are higher things allowed to disrupt the ordinary world on a large scale? A Buddha's capabilities are just awesome - with the wave of a Buddha's hand all of the human race's sicknesses could vanish. Then why don't any Buddhas do that, especially when there are so many of them? Why don't they have mercy and heal you? Because that's just how the ordinary world is

Right, and God conceals traces of His work to give us free will.

I divided my gong among the disciples who I brought along. Each of them got a share, and they were energy clusters composed of over 100 abilities. I sealed their hands, but still, some of them suffered bites to the hand that broke the skin, caused blisters, or made them bleed, and that even happened a lot. Those things are so fierce. You think youâ(TM)d dare to touch them with your ordinary personâ(TM)s hands?

Yes, my disciples are obviously superior to ordinary people, so you better not try where they failed. But if you join the ranks of my disciples then you'll be elevated from the ordinary. Classic.

When a person has a tumor somewhere, an infection somewhere, a bone spur somewhere, or whatever, in another dimension there's a being crouching at that place. In a deep dimension there's a being there. A typical qigong master can't see that, because the usual supernatural abilities can't see it, and they can only see that the person has black qi in his body. Wherever there's black qi there's illnessâ"they're right about that. But, black qi is not the root cause of the problem. Instead, it's a being in a deeper dimension, and it's that being that produces the field.

I don't even have to ridicule it, it ridicules itself. This ain't government propaganda, folks. Straight from the horse's mouth.

In before "it's all bullshit propaganda from the Chinese government!!!!": this paper is a first hand study done by a New Zealand academic on the Falun Gong issue, who actually participated in the practice for a year for the study. If anything, Falun Gong is a better propaganda machine than the Chinese government, since the Chinese government has a certain stigma associated with its press releases.

Highlights from the study:

Qi Gong is mainly comprised of breathing exercises, but Li added teachings of a world full of demons, aliens and apocalyptic adventures. His books Zhuan Falun and Falun Gong read like an Asian version of the X Files and were
instant best sellers.

Sounding familiar?

Between 1996 and mid-1999, practitioners initiated over 300 protests against negative media reports, forcing dismissals of reporters and receiving public apologies (Zhao, 2003).

Oh, so the Chinese government is censoring them, is it?

Li forbids practitioners from talking about what he calls "high level things" to ordinary people, and instructs them to lie to those uninterested in spiritual matters ("tell them that we're just doing exercises" [Li, 2002, p. 21]).

Yeah, just uh, just exercises.

At conventions he claims not just to be a God, but the best God, superior to Buddha and Jesus whom he dismisses as merely teaching 16 carat gold paths compared with his 24 carat gold path (Li, 1998c, 2003a).

"truthfulness, compassion and forbearance".

However, this claim does not tally with Li's writings. He teaches that illnesses are caused by karma, and that by taking medicines or getting medical help one presses the karma back into the body. The sign of a true practitioner is to refuse medicine or medical care (Li, 1998b; 1998c; 1999; 2001a; 2003b).

Sounding REAL familiar now.

six months into the fieldwork - a member told me that Falun Gong was not about doing the exercises at all

Wait, but you said --

The Western perspective on Falun Gong is basically that the big bad Chinese government is prosecuting grannies practising a harmless form of exercise for no reason. Just a little one-sided and naive. From what I've seen Falun Gong is the bastard child of Mormonism and Scientology, except more media-savvy and can use their persecution to further their cause.

Comment Re:A Waste? (Score 1) 309

I'm not too sure I understand the circular argument - people are sentenced to death on some legal basis, not arbitrarily. After this basis has been demonstrated your rights are removed.

RE: the high party member's son with the kidney problem, I admit that the system can be corrupted and misused, but that happens everywhere. That doesn't mean the system itself is broken though, you have to deal with the fundamental problem of corruption.

Comment Re:A Waste? (Score 1) 309

The same group also has a highly vested interest not to give their organs to others. The idea is this could be accomplished if you avoid committing crimes that warrant execution, and if you do then you've forfeited your body for the good of others.

Comment Re:A Waste? (Score 1) 309

China doesn't give a damn about your opinion or your definition of wickedness.

The idea is law abiding citizens can do with their body as they wish, whereas death row criminals have, by committing heinous crimes, forfeited their life and by extension their body.

Comment Re:A Waste? (Score 2, Interesting) 309

You've read about it? And it happens in China? And nowhere else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labour

The 13th Amendment of the American Constitution seemingly allows penal labour as it states that "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime." Douglas A. Blackmon of the Wall Street Journal has argued that in the United States in the 19th century, after the abolition of slavery, government officials on behalf of business interests "enacted [laws] specifically to intimidate blacks, [and] tens of thousands of African Americans were arbitrarily arrested". This resulted in "neoslavery...[at] coal mines, lumber camps, brickyards, railroads, quarries and farm plantations" and "beatings and physical torture", as blacks were "hit with outrageous fines, and charged for the costs of their own arrests."[2]

Though the use of non-punitive prison labour is not generally controversial if the labour in question serves the public good, is done for sound penological reasons, and is not excessive, cruel, unusual, inhumane, degrading, or humiliating, a significant amount of controversy has arisen with regards to the use of prison labour if the prison in question is privatized, a phenomenon present in a few areas of the United States.[6] As of 2000, privatized prisons incarcerate approximately 3.1% of the prison population within the US, or 62,000 inmates, out of a total incarcerated population of 2 million,[6] and of these privatized prisons, the vast majority use prisoners as a labour force for purposes of avoiding costs, or producing salable goods and services, and thus enhancing the profit of the corporation running them.

I guess China gets all the flak because they must be doing it in an cruel, inhumane, and exploitative manner, since everyone knows they're all dirty subhuman Reds.

Comment Re:A Waste? (Score 1) 309

Except it's not profitable, because there's no profit. It's a donation, they're not making a profit in transferring them to people who need it. This is probably why they put "profit" instead of profit in the summary.

Or are you suggesting that judges will find perfectly innocent and healthy people guilty of crimes that warranty execution, in order to transfer their organs to people are similarly innocent but are not in top physical condition, in an extremely risky operation with a decent chance of rejection (and even without rejection, the post transplant patient usually has a reduced quality of life since they have to keep taking medication to keep their immune system from destroying the foreign body...).

Doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? Who exactly benefits from this? Not the government.

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