I did some of this ~30 years ago. We used to just call it "Aircraft Stripper," and it was brutal. Aircraft used to be painted with Imron and all sorts of the other best stuff Dow and PPG could throw at it without restrictions. It is still advertised as Aircraft Stripper, I have no idea if it is the same or different. Just like today McKay parts dip is like kerosene but 45 years ago a tiny spec would raise a chemical burn blister on the inside of your arm in about 30 seconds. The new stuff could be hot, medium or mild. YMMV

If usage has no cost, why are we paying for it? The point is to pay the cost for what you use. If what they do is free it shouldn't cost (beyond $10-15/yr for paperwork). if there is a cost, that is what you should pay...

I would say it matters less where they were driven than that they *were* driven. States will capture some miles driven outside your state and other people will drive through your state. If the purpose of the exercise it to pay for road damage, how the damage happens needs to be the primary function; ownership does not damage roads. I would suggest GVWR (or GCWR) x miles driven (per year) x 0.000001. This means the average car with a GVRW of 4200lb and 15k miles/yr pays $63 and a 5th wheel pickup with a GCWR of 20klb and 15k miles/yr pays $300 and a Semi tractor with a GCWR of 80klb and .5M/mi pays $40k (subject to whatever adjustment). This seems to me like the best way to align the damage to the cost. It may be you align the the cost of non-5th wheel equipped vehicles to the GVRW and 5th wheel vehicles to the GCVW at another rate...

^^^Very nice, and thank you.^^^ This is emblematic of commentary on /. in the old days. I started reading in the mid 100k numbers but never joined until just before 1M due to thinking I had nothing to offer (but wanted a sub-1M username). You, sir, are the person we come here to learn from; and we appreciate you!

Good on 'ya. I do. Because no ring is no video. They have nothing I want (balanced against security) so I don't have it.

^^^^This, and thank you.^^^^ I can/do vote for people I disagree with, if I trust them (believe them). It is very difficult to vote for (and impossible to be friends with) anyone I distrust, no matter how much they say what I want to hear. That makes it difficult to vote for anyone, anymore...

Those are good rules and this is not a disagreement, but a discussion. Short answer, don't discuss things with the "woke." I have had very serious political discussions at work with co-workers who disagree. They key was choosing conversation partners who respected me as a person, who knew I valued them as a person more than my own opinions, and being appropriately respectful of all viewpoints during the conversations. I wouldn't say hearts and minds were won, but it gave us both a deeper appreciation for the nuances of the "other side" and their arguments/opinions; and also greater respect and care. Mostly the respect for others has been lost, leading to a lack of civility, and these are what have destroyed the nations unity. Thinking our opinions (themselves) are more important than living people is how we got here...

***Facepalm***

**Citation Needed** - =16KV (localized distribution) pretty routine, but name a country with a significant amount of high power transmission underground? I'm not aware of any.

CA is a mess, but much of the west coast air pollution is actually from Asia. - https://www.npr.org/sections/t...

Apples and oranges - "High Voltage" is technically anything over 600V. The lines to move power around towns and neighborhoods are typically 4-16kv That can be done for ~$3M/mi. Additional power transmission cost/math here - https://slashdot.org/comments....

Municipalities are not regulated or rate-set by the PUC. Los Angeles DWP gives the city of L.A ~$200M/year in rate-payer overcharge!

Yes. And home power is 208/230/240V not 1000/2000 times that. Literally orders of magnitude different problems, including that underground problems detonate due to space constraints, meaning digging up/all new conduit and wire, etc...

There are a couple of things going on here. The first is beer, I don't mean to offend, someone check my math.

First - CAPUC sets what public power companies can charge, and everything they must do; including the "acceptable color" or type of bolt (literally - by bureaucrats with no experience) for transmission tower materials. If "public power companies" are not safe it is the responsibility of the PUC, and under their level of authoritarian control if utilities cannot afford to become safe it is the responsibility of the CAPUC.

@gwheihr - true, with the focus on things like tower color regulation, and lack of safety regulation W/O a reflection in pricing it seems like a CAPUC issue. ~$5B sounds like a lot without scale.

@AC - Power-lines are routinely buried everywhere in the world, but voltage and distance matter. A major road or business intersection for a 115kv line in SoCal might be $500k or less and often paid for by the requesting entity.

$40/foot maybe what it costs to underground a house from a local pole. Recently I got quotes from 3 different cable co. engineers to bring CABLE to my house (semi-rural) and it was 10k/.25mi. Or $40k/mi ($7.6/ft) for no-voltage existing overhead infrastructure.

@amimojo - Undergounding an ~220kv line was about $6M/mi 25 years ago, it's about that per-phase now so the ~$20M/mi is in the ballpark. Edison has about 12.6k miles of transmission lines over 50K/mi^2 - best case the cost would be ~$250B. PG&E has ~18.5k/mi of transmission lines across 70K/mi^2 or ~$370B to underground. Best case the entire PG&E $5B yearly profit would underground ~1.35% of their transmission lines/yr, or about 75 years to complete with zero profit, scheduling delays or cost over-runs.

@ravenshrike - Aerial insulation length/zones/costs increase with wind (and airborne dirt) but decrease with humidity. Humidity encourages dirt to stick to insulators and current to track up the insulators to the tower and increase flash-over (spark). Wind lowers humidity, reducing insulation length, but also decreases conductor to tower distance and increases likelihood of conductor to tower flash over. It also reduces humidity and brush dryness, increasing fire danger; it's not a simple sliding scale.

Not shilling for SCE; PG&E and SDG&E are problematic, that may have to do with NG infrastructure costs - I have no idea. Additionally, the CAPUC does regulate what they (non-municipality power companies) can charge; hopefully the above plus what they get for natural gas, $5B is their overall profit, not just from electricity etc. illustrates what a small profit that is for per mile electric infrastructure.

A separate discussion is that power from Hoover/Boulder dam is "for the pubic good" and to LA-DWP. They resell it to their customers over priced and kick back ~$.25B/yr to the city of L.A. If that power is a public good, maybe L.A shouldn't get that federal good for free.

Well, I'm glad it happened; and I don't care who or why. It's nobody's business and it is unfortunate you can't support it without partizan jabs (pun intended).