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The Media

Yet Another Article on Hacking 96

metalgeek writes "CNN conducted two interviews about hacking. One with Emmanuel Goldstein is the editor-in-chief of 2600: The Hacker Quarterly. The other is Dr. Charles Palmer, one one the head security guys at IBM. fairly well written article over all."
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Yet Another Article on Hacking

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  • by azi ( 60438 )
    That IBM fellow (Charles C Palmer if I remember correct) does nothing more than makes me laugh... Sorry. =)

  • When you are knowledgable you are dangerous. When you are knowledgable about computers, your a hacker and that's dangerous. But what of the man or woman who knows computers because he or she loves it? I am so tired of hearing about how hacking can get you a similar sentence to manslaughter. When you reverse engineer you look at the mold of the predecessor and configure it, making it better. When you spend hours configuring your SCSI/IDE cables, and clock chip settings to get that combination of brute force, you are making the most out of what you have. When you examine code finding out how it works, it empowers you to become a better tech.
    A true hacker(and I'm sure I've heard this on slashdot before) chooses to help people and works to advance the tech community instead of setting it back. Wannabes caught up in malicious actions will be nothing short of lost, as karma has adverse affects on one's future
  • I don't believe this. Everyone knows Emmanuel Goldstien doesn't know jack about hacking. He is just a frigging talking head who exploits the hacking community for his own personal gain. He used to be in a group called the 411's years ago .. (ingeniously named after the area code they lived in.. how frigging cool.) They like got into trouble for messing around with Telenet (remember that x.25 network before Sprint purchased it?) They messed with Telemail , and did stupid stuff like set up a Bulletin board where they posted information about their hacks!
    This system was used for copanies to set up global bulletin boards for corporations. They had an admin account made their own BBS. They got caught rather quickly as one could imagine. The bottom line was Eric Corely (Emmanuel Goldstein to the "hackers") was only mariginally involved in this hack. He was busy hand dialing for LD codes so he could connect to warez boards. blah.


    They were to close to pure gold though! They could have read the messages there and gleaned the power of x.25 networks. They didnt even harness the power of monitoring x.75 gateways by connecting to debug ports on the mighty Tp3000 packet switches! Nothing like a hex dump of transactions from EDS!

    He had a nice big of change from his parents and started this rag called 2600. He never knew how to actually hack. He is what we call a social hacker. He talks about stuff but has no idea how any of it is done. When confronted about his own skills , he talks vaguely about stuff that makes it seem like he is in the know.

    He doesn't really *get* it. He only knows the most superficial public domain type of things that can be done thru hacking and only a vague notion how anything is done.

    Kids think he is cool cuz he wears a ratty communist jacket and has a 2600 van painted to look like a old Nynex van (which is outdated cuz Bell Atlantic absorbed Nynex). He talks about hacking. He is like a rebellion figure to them.

    Not that this is important , but Emmanuel also has serious issues of a Nambla type nature. So please advaise your kids before they get into that van or go to his house in L.I. for that yearly "halloween" party.

    next you guys will be telling me Kevin Mitnick is a frigging superstar hacker. Go Kevin Poulsen! tell this guys what hacking is really about!
  • Why does Slashdot continually post old news? This article ran over 6 months ago...


    www.bluealien.org
  • Yeah, this is old.

    Here's a link to the story the FIRST time it appeared on slashdot.


    http://slashdot.org/articles/99/04/05/1646251.shtm l [slashdot.org]


    More interesting intro, and this article links to the hacker insurgency front page, of which this interview is only a feature.


    Isn't it a requirement that you READ slashdot in order to POST STORIES?

  • Yes I did too. Old news, cold news.
  • oh shit, i misspelled StarTrek, i shouldve proofed that post first! good thing its not my real email address on here...might have gotten some real flaming for that :) gimme a brek its 5am! (or i dont really need to preview this one do I? its only a short one, what could i have done wrong? -- i checked i havent misspelled startrek...)
  • well why dont they lay off and *dont* document things they dont understand!

    "yes suzy, have that report for the tuesday show on my desk by tomorow morning, you know the one with the alien interview...make sure you get in all that detial about how they sirvive, and about their parralell universe...try and ask some questions about abductions and why thay do them"

    later that day: "hello mr Joe Bow, im a reporter, Suzy Smith, and I am wondering, are you an alien from a parralel universe?"
    "well, it must be your lucky day, I am!"
    "okay well theres a few question i have..."

    it may sound redicoulous but really thats exactly whats going on! and it too is riduculous...argh!!
  • For anyone who hasn't yet read Stephen Levy's "Hackers", (I, like many, was inspired to re-read my dog-eared copy upon the recent /. review), go read it. IMNSHO, open source has become the canonical embodiment of the original TMRC-era philosophy: "Always yield to the hands-on imperative".
    I remember this book very well (yes, mine is dog-eared too), and from what I remember the term "Hacker" actually originates to TMRC and the guys that were working on the model railroad, not Palmer's definition of "...originally meant a very gifted programmer. " You would think that a doctor in the field of computer security (at least, I figured that is what he has his doctorate in) would know something about the history of hackers.
  • Respect my elders? How old are you? 50? 2600 is a joke, all 2600 wants is money, not to help a community fueled by information
  • Since when is ole Goldstein a hacker? Not that I have anything against knowing your shit or doing whatever it takes to learn (sorry but Phrack makes 2600 look like a bunch of babies). Seriously, go copy video tapes if you want to learn about movies and drama theory. But phreaking is old. So you use a recording? So what? That just doesn't seem to reach deep hack mode.



    "Computers should be ... tools... (siglim 120 chars)" Like cars... to the office no more no less.
  • Both of these people are agreeing with each other, and are somewhat on the same side of the fence:

    1) They both believe maliciousness of any form is reprehensible and rightfully legally punishable.

    2) They both agree that "true" hackers (those who follow the "hacker ethic") are doing it for the passion, the intrigue, the curiosity and discovery of it.

    3) They both think that more encryption and education are the solution, not just closing their eyes and blaming "bad" people.




    "hacker" is a state of mind...
  • Eek! According to that IBM guy, I can go to jail for that ray tracer I wrote, or that natural selection simulator where the program guessed the optimum input to a function that even I didn't know how to optimize.

    Methinks that IBM guy is trying to redefine what "hacking" means.

    I know, I know, it's a lost cause... the word has been stolen from us. I'm still pissed about it, though.


    ---
  • If you are a sysadmin, or become one in the future, eventually it will be the case that you'll get hacked by someone who will destroy your data (usually out of carelessness and stupidity), will create extra work for you, and will put you in the hot seat for not closing the door on unauthorized access. It's amazing how much perception of hackers changes when that happens.

    That being said, most hacking is more along the lines of simple pranks. Any law enforcement official can tell you how pranks turn into felonies in the hands of a inept prankster, but for the most part pranksters go along their merry way, doing their work in the face of authority, and most people dont really care all too much.

    The fact that we tell our children not to tag the walls of buildings or drive over the speed limit, or sneak into bars, or smoke weed, or whatever probably wont stop them from trying it. But that's not going to stop us from telling them.

    -Rich

    -Rich
  • The guy talks about checking that companies have applayed the latest security paches, but he's too stupid/ignorant to mention how those came about. And yes, without them the real criminals whould just dance right in!!



    LINUX stands for: Linux Inux Nux Ux X
  • In reading thses two interviews, I have to say that I'm more impressed with Palmer. You can't just laugh at him and dismiss his views without understanding that this definition of 'hacker' is different from ours (i.e. most /. readers). If you keep his definition in mind when you read his interview then everything he says is quite reasonable and well informed.

    Goldstien, though his definition is closer to mine, he crashes on a few points that indicate a slightly misguided attitude. Particularly with statments like:

    The true violator of your privacy is the person who made the decision to make them easily accessible.

    This is DEAD wrong. If I leave my house unlocked that doesn't absolve anyone of wrong doing who walks in and searches through my stuff. Goldstien doesn't understand that virtual trespassing DOES exist, and IS just as wrong and RL trespassing. If *my* data is on *my* machine and I don't intend you to read it, then if you to do so, it's an invasion of my privacy on your part. Period.

    Goldstien really needs a wakeup call in this.

  • This article has been around since at least the beginning of the year. Emmanuel even refrenced it during a "hacker/cracker" discussion on the june4 mailing list (prep for the Free Kevin demonstrations on June 4th around the world).
  • Amen to that! The hacker news network always is up to date! Except on weekends!! :)
  • Phrack sucks too
  • When the hell was 411 an NPA?

    Emmanuel is around my age and 411 or 1411 has been the USA number for INFORMATION ever since it was broken out from general "0" operator service, at least as far as I remember.

    Blacklisted 411 is another mag, if that is what you have scrambled in your ill-informed little head. In the case of Blacklisted, the 411 means INFORMATION and they do not mess much with computer hacking, they publish physical hacks (though most of it is pretty ancient, still entertaining to read).
  • it is highly questionable wether it is even written by hackers..
  • Whjy do I even need to defend my self for this one!!!!!! Yes I agress it still enjoys the 1st ammendment rights!!! 2600 has every right to print theier magazine! Im sorry to say it totally sucks though!!!! I've briefly looked through one and i totally hated it. The best medium for news and learning is the internet, where infromation is freely distributed!! Emmanual Goldstein is not a hacker, calling him a hacker is like calling Bill gates the biggest computer genius! If everyone had to pay for information we would all lose out!
  • area code 414.. he was in the 414's. A small typo that hardly jeprodizes the legitamacy of what I am saying. Blah. anyone who thinks Eric Corley (emmanuel goldstein) is a hacker or knows anything about hacking wouldnt understand what I've said. They would think I'm just bashing him. I know eric corley.. PS: watch your kids around him
  • How do you remember it wasn't just me who was blind drunk that morning was it. I thought Emmanuel always looked kinda rough, he has his critics but in a scene with so few 'spokesmen' IMO he is as good as they get. (i was the drunk irish fella)

    *grins* Mainly because I wasn't that drunk - I'd spent most of the night either chatting to Dark Tangent and co(horts :) ) about various wonderful conspiracy theories (things like microwave/shortwave-band resonance strips in $100 bills)... and spent the rest of the night chatting up a rather interesting French girl ;)

    BTW: I was the journo in the hat and the coat who decided it was much more fun to join in the fun than to write about it ;)

    Simon
  • i agree with you blue boxing.. isnt that from like the 70's? seizing frigging analog trunks in the phone company? Key Pulse Forward? lame. Besides. Taking over digital switches. now that is impressive. Dropping in on a DMS-100.. oh yeah.. DMERT! Checkout those AMA logs.. Bring up a remote headsetand monitor lines. dissemble SS7 packets! post a trunk up a trunk in realtime! Add CLASS features to lines.. play with the CLID. To a debug dump to a file and get all the secret goings on.. and I aint just talking about CLLI codes either.. Im talking about the GOOD shit. Northern Telecom.. hmmm you guys can keep those GTE joints.
  • that you dont know shite. Why don't you go hack Janet or something lame like that? if you think emmanuel goldstein is cool. We know you are *NOT* cool. btw: i was in 8lgm! 8lgm! The best this in your liphe!

    And I should care why?

    Hacking is a state of mind - it doesn't mean you have to break into things to be "cool". It means that you thirst for knowledge, and you don't give up until you get it. And then you thirst for more.

    It's a thirst that is never quenched.

    You don't have to be part of some psuedo-cool subculture to be a hacker. If you're a loner, why identify with any group?

    Simon
  • I agree with you , however: There is another age after the "hacker" mystique. There was an age where is was cool to have a blue box you built from scratch or use a whistle from captain crunch. Or reverse engineer "I took a lickin' from a chicken" or "Operation" from Milton Bradley. But then a new age dawned. The world of modems. The world of network computers. At first , people used it to do things like communicated between defense/miltary stuff with contractors and universities who interacted. People made cool tools and the network grew and was good. They made USENET and posted about being gay , swapping comics and flaming each other on alt.hitchhikers.guide.to.the.galaxy.fan way before Ebay and Amazon and were around. Then came the hackers. They had apple2's and commodore 64's and they had modems. with nothing to connect to other than Papa bears den. People started scanning and hacking and finding computers and breaking in. it was a wonderful time of new discovery. Most of these kids were middle class kids who might steal a candy bar , but wasnt going to sell miltary secrets. Maybe just change a MOTD on a unix box or something (Sort of like defacing a web page!) More and more computer got on the net. There was all kinds of nets.. LANS , WANS , VANS and all types of protocols for these nets and tons of different computers hooked up to them (yummy! Remember VMS? remember PrimeOs? remember Multics? hahah the NSA ran MULTICS at one time on dockmaster , their mail server! Security thru Obsucurity was there motto. Know what I say about those AF generals logging in everyday? I say haha Mr. Man! Somebody read your mail at one point!) It seems liked the hardware hacker was lost. In came the "cracker". All these cool computers with tons of resources. It was cool breaking in and learning new stuff. looking at cool databases and getting a sense of how the world really worked. All while sitting at your desk at home! There weren't web pages then. There wasnt a CNN/FN or history channel to learn about the world. All there was was reruns of Gilligans Island and What's Happening Now. Forget that. We wanted to LEARN man. just as much as those who came before us. The rules were different now though. you were playing with someone elses data.. someone else resources. Big Business didnt like it. The Government didnt like it. The media fell in love with it. From movies to failed Tv shows like the one with the guy from barney Miller or Three (anyone remember the lost episode of Fat Albert where they talked about hacking? Whats a modem Russell asks!) I think this generation that birthed Phrack and MOD or LOD or any OD is just as valid as those who came before and blue boxed or hacked cigarette machines or started Zines like 2600 (which i loathe but I am glad it is here to inspire) or TAP. I think the guys that do it now are pushing the envelope again. There is lots of cool stuff. I mean. We can look down on Defacing web pages. But today's Web Defacers maybe tommorrow's Kevin Mitnick! (even thought he is lame too)
  • The hacker/cracker debate has been around much longer than Slashdot. The term "Hacker" was originated in the 1980s to describe the people at the MIT AI lab. These people conformed to the profile of a True Hacker, not the crackers you now see on TV calling themselves hackers.

    Think of it this way: If some criminal decided to call himself a locksmith, because he picks locks to break into people's houses and smash their televisions, is he really a locksmith? And should the real locksmiths get a new name because the media screwed it up? Of course not.

    The same thing applies here: If some criminal decided to call himself a hacker, because he picks passwords and program bugs to break into people's computers and smash their information, is he really a hacker? And should the real hackers get a new name because the media screwed it up? Of course not.
    --------
    "I already have all the latest software."
  • He charges for lame information in that magazine written by Pseudo-hackers.

    Im glad the magazine exists. Your foolish if you don't think emmanuel goldstein doesn't make money off that magazine.. he easily makes $120,000 profit from selling that rag a year. (cept when his distrbution company went out of business! woop he lost quite a bit of bread that year.. we are watching Corley!)

    Plus he cons dummies into thinking he is a consultant in security! he hasnt hacked anything since he still had Hair! back when he was in 414 area code. He makes some nice change doing this. I can't knock him for it at all.

    Just realize , his profit motivation is strong. This is is livelyhood. He must pretend to know to hack to continue to survive and add gravity to his vauge comments about H/P





  • ... the guy from IBM doesn't know what the *hell* he's talking about. Talk about painting people with a broad brush.

    As for Emmanuel Goldstein - what a star. Though he looks kinda different from when I had breakfast with him in a greasy spoon in Manchester, England after an all-night hacking run. 1996 - an excellent year ;)

    :-)

    Simon
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing
  • Damnit... my <NAMEDROP;&gt tags didn't come out right...
  • First time in a while I've seen him say anything that I totaly agreed with.
    I don't know what that IBM guy is thinking.
    Then again what can you expect from IBM, company songs, odd blue dress code.......
    I can see where brainwashing would fit in.
  • The article was a little long winded, but hey - it's CNN right? :) Why is that journailsts never learn? If they want to get opinions on hackers by hackers, ask almost any programmer at any company. I mean isn't it so that you'll get a straight(er) answer from someone who has not made it his life quest to inform people on any given subject?
  • I understand that hacking (actually cracking) is not what corporate types want to happen, but it bugs me that this fellow from IBM just looks at all this in terms of it 'being a felony'. That may be true, but that's certainly not the outlook I would expect from a fellow computer geek (who's looking at this from the other side of the fence). Come on, even if you work for IBM, surely you have something more exciting to say about hacking/cracking than 'it's a felony'.

    Car Salesman: But it goes 500Mph at 200 miles per gallon, and it only costs $500 ...
    Corporate type: Yes, but breaking the speed limit of 55 Mph is a felony ...
    Car Salesman: Excuse me while I go shoot myself ...

  • by hdj jewboy ( 100949 ) on Tuesday October 26, 1999 @12:05AM (#1587602) Homepage
    on a somewhat related note (all these hacker stories lately), Goldstein gives his 2 cents on the "MTV - Wanna Be a Hacker" Special.

    MTV'S "TRUE LIFE" - A REVIEW [2600.com]
  • I really like the job CNN did on this one. While the questions are a touch lame in many cases, they allowed both to speak for themselves. While I don't like the suit definition of hacker, it still seems like he knows what is going on when it security. It's a shame that /. can't interview government security professionals. It'd be nice to find out if/how espionage has changed due to computers. Anyone from the NSA want to give us a briefing :-)? I can't say that anything Goldstein said came as much of a surprise.

    As an offtopic aside... 2600 seems to be sharing the same fate as Saturday Night Live. They both used to be great.
  • I especially liked the part where Goldstein said that anybody could walk up to a reporter and claim to be a hacker, without any form of proof. Try that but claim to be a doctor !

    How can a journalist ever figure out if someone really is a hacker ? Put yourself in their shoes for a second : you're used to writing about the adventures of Bill and Monica, or the latest 'hot news' about Britney Sprears, and then your editor tells you to do a story about 'hackers'. What would you do ? All you know about computers is how to turn them on and start Word. And then this nice person comes along, claiming to be one, and tells you a lot of stuff about 'hacking' and the cool stuff he has done. Your editor is never going to ask questions about this stuff, 'cause he knows even less about computers than you do. And you've got a deadline. What would you do ?

    Maybe it's time for a site listing "Certified Hackers" (with their accomplishments) the media can get their soundbytes from :-)

  • Fine then, why don't you read the articles.

    They were not written as such, they were interviews. And for once the respondents and the interviewer seemed to be fairly informed and reasonable although they had different perspectives.
    --
  • I must admit this article is a lot better than any of the other ones out there, at least they got a _expert_ (Emmanuel Goldstein) better than some lying punk ass mtv wannabe kid
  • Never once at my employment at IBM was I subjected to company songs or the odd blue dress code. I have heard of the dress code, but that has been defunct for a while

  • Perhaps felony is too strong of a word, but accessing a computer without permission is not something one would expect to be accepted gleefully by even enlightened sysadmins. When it comes down to it, most security systems in common use, from the lock on your front door to your root password are really more of a deterrent than an absolute barrier.

    I can certainly understand the challenge and excitement, and even the relative harmlessness of entering a forbidden place. I have not hacked into computers as such, but I have climbed over barbed wired fences and "hacked" my way up microwave towers. The two are comparable, IMHO, in that there was at least an attempt at security but it was obviously not foolproof, I did it primarily for a thrill, and there was no permanent damage. I imagine that it would be a thrill to enter my neighbor's house while he was on vacation, or to "slim jim" open a car door to demonstrate the weak security. In the great scheme of things these are not major crimes, but to call them harmless is to ignore the very real concerns of the property holders.

    I don't know what the proper balance is. Is a harmless breakin akin to just checking your neighbor's door to make sure he left it locked, or is in equivalent to coming in and checking out his dirty laundry, or is it, as Mr. IBM would suggest, tanamount to stealing his silver. As a sysadmin, I would like to be able to treat every unauthorized access as an illegal act because I can't always tell whether something was damaged. Clearly there is an onus on me to make sure my door is closed and I have a good inventory, but when I catch someone inside poking around I think it's reasonable to call the cops or at least the person's parents.


    --
  • by deefer ( 82630 ) on Tuesday October 26, 1999 @12:18AM (#1587610) Homepage
    "hacking is the only field where the media believes anyone who says they're a hacker."
    Finally. Would MTV please take note?

    Still, given the industries recent propensity for requiring certification (CLP, MSCE etc), does this mean that there will be a H4X0rZ certificate? :)

    And who will administrate it? Will there be one for NT, one for BeOS, and another for each implementation of *NIX? Must Red Hat start giving the Linux certificate?
    Still, can't wait for the new business cards - John Smith, BSc (Hons), h4X0R d00d...

    Exam paper for Linux h4X0r d00d accreditation: Pick ONE of the multichoice for each question:
    Q1) Packet sniffing is:
    a) Using an NIC on the network to examine other traffic not addressed to that NIC.
    b) What your dog does to strangers' crotches
    c) What the Postal service does to suspicious mail
    Q2) A buffer overflow exploit is
    a) A data storage area can be flooded with a bit stream, enabling hijacking of the IP register to execute custom code.
    b) didn't malloc() properly.
    c) Shoe shine boy cleaned your shoes twice & charged you ten times the going rate.
    etc...
    ---------------
    NT h4X0r d00d exam as provided by MS
    Pick ONE of the multichoice for each question:
    Q1) Describe the NT security model
    a) Any breaches are hypothetical
    b) Any breaches are hypothetical
    c) CDC are liars
    Q2) Describe B02K
    a) A malicious hacking tool
    b) A malicious hacking tool
    c) CDC are liars
    etc....
    And there'd have to be a grade at the end of the exam:
    0-45% ScriptKiddie. Go back to AOL, stop trying to pass B02K off as your own, and QUIT WANKING!
    45%-60% Wannabe. Keep trying!
    60%-80% h4X0r. Stay away from milnet, you still aren't covering your tracks.
    80%-100% 31337 h4X0r d00d!!! |/\|3 ph33r U! P13323 d0n7 h4X0r u5!!!
  • You are right... it was April (or there abouts), and it was on /. because that's how I knew to read it...

    -Grandpa_Spaz
  • but that's like a year old or so. The only problem i have with goldstein is that he constantly looks really shifty in all his pictures. Doesn't portray a very good image. ah well.

    -lx
  • You are an ass. Too many slashdot posters of are of the mindset. "What do I want to say sucks today?" It is really pathetic.

    Like it or not print media still enjoys the highest protection of first amendments rights. 2600 Magazine pushes the limits when it comes to distributing information about how critical parts of the world we take for granted runs or is vulnerable.

    It isn't the best magazine. It is not the bible. It is information for hackers written by hackers. It is certainly higher quality than most of the postings I have read here deriding it.

    -weld
  • You are a complete ass. You should know that 411 is not an area code. Have you ever had a discussion whith Emmanuel? Where do you get the notion that he only has the vaguest idea of what hacking is? Puhleeeze.

    The hacking community is more than just bit twiddlers and buffer overflow experts. That's neat but so is communicating the problems with current technology to the masses. Emmanuel has his best skills in this area. I don't see anyone else in the hacking community publishing a print journal (excpet maybe blacklisted 411) or holding a radio talk show. These are efforts to go beyond publishing on web sites and security mailing lists where it would be preaching to the choir.

    -weld
  • Maybe it's time for a site listing "Certified Hackers" (with their accomplishments) the media can get their soundbytes from :-)

    Let's see if the FBI woulld sponsor it...:-)

  • Unless he was deliberately trolling for flames, I think that Eric Corley aka Emmanuel Goldstein has no idea how expensive some of his ideas are. For example, near the end of the interview he claims that there should be no problem with people hacking into the Pentagon's web site (or any government web site) simply because there is no classified information on those sites. He completely misses the point that hundreds of thousands of people utilize those resources in their daily work, and a hacker-turned-criminal (to use his definitions) could effectively waste thousands of man-hours while important information was recovered from backups. On a personal note, if a hacker was to destroy the information kept on the networked computers in my office, it could potentially take up to 2 weeks to recover and reconstruct the information because our data changes daily making reliable and complete backups extremely difficult. For my time alone, that's over $2000 spent by the American taxpayer, and my shop directly controls how over 200 others spend their time at work.

    Fortunately I'm behind a firewall that makes doing even legitimate work very difficult, plus my shop is protected by relative anonymity amongst hundreds of computers on the LAN...

    In addition, while there is no classified information accessable from the internet, there are often documents that could potentially cause the government to waste millions of dollars or even potentially risk the lives of servicemen and women if those documents were destroyed, altered, or misused. I even have an example. Safety reports are supposed to be official use only for many reasons, but there is one huge time/money wasting reason to keep some information for official use only. In order to ensure that people involved in accidents fully cooperate with safety investigators (to prevent future accidents), all information gathered by the safety investigation team is privledged information much like anything you tell a lawyer is privledged. There have been cases where information in those documents have led to multi-million dollar lawsuits that never should have happened, simply because the document was given to the wrong person.

    This kind of abuse directly wastes taxpayer dollars, and has the potential to cause loss of life because if it keeps happening, people will not cooperate with safety investigations in the spirit of the 5th amendment of the Constitution.

    These are only a couple of examples that point out the childishness of Corley's statements. He suggests that the ability to literally throw away millions of dollars in lawsuits and wasted work hours is a desired and legitimate end state simply to satisfy his and other's curiosity. I'm 100% in favor of "hacking" as a way to solve everyday problems with unconventional solutions, but I fail to understand why he says hacking private, corporate, or government sites is "ok" simply because there is no classified information on that site. In some cases, simple unauthorized distribution of unclassified information can be truly damaging and dangerous. Doing so in some misguided attempt to further a hacker spirit is not "ok", it's unethical and in many cases criminal.

    This is of course my opinion, not that of my employer. Direct flames to /dev/null or email me directly if you must.

  • You appear to know two things: 1) Jack2) Shit
  • CNN did this months ago, and the link was posted on /. Maybe there should be a URL matching tool for /. so that we don't get zombie posts (the keep rising from the dead, and picking at our brains).
  • umm.. i dont see them rushing out to make movies and write books about dudes who take apart RCX modules of Lego mindstorms.

    I see women who love hackers.. why power. intoxicating.

    its romantic
    its adventure
    its exciting.
    it makes me piss my frigging pants!
  • i think you slept with Emmanuel Goldstein
  • umm.. i dont see them rushing out to make movies and write books about dudes who take apart RCX modules of Lego mindstorms.

    There's no conflict there, that's why. Anything illegal makes the news - especially something which most people don't know a lot about. The more exotic it is, the more likely there's a story in it. However, the media doesn't define what hacking is - it just shows one aspect of it. (Take this from someone who was a member of the media for 5 years).

    I see women who love hackers.. why power. intoxicating.

    Hmmm... never needed to show my "hacking prowess" to impress a woman before... Then again, I guess some people need crutches like that.

    its romantic
    its adventure
    its exciting.


    So is a candle-lit dinner, or white-river rafting. I don't know of many hackers who hack because it's "romantic". The adventure/excitement side of it can be found in anything, if it interests you.

    it makes me piss my frigging pants!

    Maybe you should try something which doesn't have such an extreme effect on your control of your bodily functions.

    Simon
  • The media does define what hacking is.

    they are the voice of the national conscience. or at least they shape it.

    they say hacking is cool , hacking is cool.
  • Of course, a true hacker would be able to achieve more than 100% on the test.
  • Amen! The man is obviously not a hacker. He cites blue boxing as his principal hacking experience, something that's been impossible for over a decade.

    That's so amusing - it was still possible in 1994.

    Simon
  • ROFLMAO

    man that one kept me laughing for a while!
    I totally love jokes like that :)
    so how do we make the point to the media that hackers are crackers and geniuses are hackers?
    maybe hackers should change their name to hequorniguroz, and that way the media would stay away, A. because the hacker keyword has already gained popularity and 'buzz word' factor, and B) because they'll never spell it right!

    But that wouldnt be smart, we cannot leave or own turf, its just not fair..we shall fight it to the DEATH!

    err.yeah whatever... (cmon i know im not the only one making stupid posts at 4:39 in the morning!)
  • jesus fu...er...fuggin christ (is swearing allowed on slashdot :P ) it makes my blood boil to read about that sort of b/s the media are just out for money, at this rate the news will be 75% fictional by 2010. "and today the sun exploded and we all died, but one clever teenage HACKER... [bzzz HACKER ****HACKER*** oooh oohh watch this this is cool] saved us all, so tell us Mr. 1337 haX0r fuX0r headX0r, you say you hacked the universe mainframe and reprogrammed it, and then you clicked on the recycle bin icon and then you dragged all those deleted files of planets and people, one by one, adn you saved them all? wow we owe our lives to you! all hail the Mr. 1337 haX0r dickX0r headX0r!"

    we really need to do something about this, this is getting out of hand, does it violate something to call it a documentary and have it full of *bullshit*! (alright you smartasses that insist on referencing an RFCxxxx document on every post, now's your chance!)

    I think a moderate group of 'hackers' should join forces and go and beat the crap out of some media people, hehehe. make a stand! go and destroy the MTV offices! But that woudltn eb very hacker like would it? And we'd have to do it after the saturday late night StarTreck Original rerun...

    I guess that really the 'genuine' hacker doesnt really care, I guess its a matter of who gives a shit, these people are all screwed and misinforming eeveryone....etc.... blah, but why should i interrupt the coding of my new networked toaster for these non-worthy lusers, especially wehn I havent even written the subroutine to handle drawing pictures by burning the toast to varying degrees! Heck I dont even have the algorithm connecting color intensity to average current applied to the micro-heat-element over time. I cant afford to be wasting time on things like the '/media/', and especially not if it requires me to get out of this chair and go out into that place some people call 'real life' ugh, reminds me of college days, i dotn want to go back there! I guess the best we can hope for is a DOS attack :) but that wouldnt be very hacker like either would it

    ahh well i guess ive calmed down now...and managed to make an idiot of myself! jesus its 5am, i gotta breack this vicous slashdot cycle :)
  • Come on, you guys are supposed to be professionals now ;)

    "One with Emmanuel Goldstein WHO is the editor-in-chief of 2600: The Hacker Quarterly. The other is Dr. Charles Palmer, one one ^W OF the head security guys at IBM."

  • 1) People using computers no longer wear long white coats and use punch cards

    2) Do not quote IBM magazines. There's a simple reason for this - nobody reads IBM's "official technical magazines", including IBM employees. On the brighter side, everybody recycles them. There's a simple reason for this - they are incredibly boring, especially the cartoons and jokes.

    3) Your CEO is a former "cost efficiency expert" and avoids interviews where technical questions could be asked. Replace him with somebody who knows what an "operating system" means. Meanwhile, it may also be a good idea to change your culture, fire the bureaucrats, and put real programmers in charge.

    4) You say that

    ...surveys continue to show that the threat from inside an organization is greater than from outside.)

    There's a major threat from within IBM....the threat of boring everyone to tears. Stop this epidemic before it gets serious. Hire people who don't talk like IRS employees.

    5) Do not show ads. with people wearing black suits and staring straight ahead. It scares customers away.

    6) Don't try to act like a "fun", "hip", "Gen-X" company. It scares customers away.

    7) Do not use words like "IT visioneering" and assorted crap.

    8) Do not read memos from /. readers. If you do, do NOT reply with a witty response. This is extremely dangerous, and possibly impossible for IBM...

    w/m
  • Ahhh yes....I should have worded it as follows..
    "What can we expect from the company that also brought us company songs, and a strange blue dress code?"
  • by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Tuesday October 26, 1999 @01:45AM (#1587635)
    Once upon a time, "breaking into systems" was the only way you could have more power and connectivity than an 8-bit microcomputer and a 300-baud modem making local phone calls. Today, with Linux distros available for free (remember when paying SCO ~$1000 was the only way to run Linux on hardware that cost less than $10000?), and the 'net being just as cheap as phone service, everyone has root on their own machine. The days when learning about "the big iron running the a Real OS" required breaking into someone else's machine are over.

    Today, hacking in the sense of "doing cool stuff with a real OS" (as opposed to, say, reverse-engineering assembly code as part of a copy-protection defeat) doesn't require breaching the security of third party systems. Rather, it's now about knowing how your own system works.

    For anyone who hasn't yet read Stephen Levy's "Hackers", (I, like many, was inspired to re-read my dog-eared copy upon the recent /. review [slashdot.org]), go read it. IMNSHO, open source has become the canonical embodiment of the original TMRC-era philosophy: "Always yield to the hands-on imperative".

    > But if you're mobbed by people who are looking for free phone calls, software or exploits,
    > you're just an opportunist, possibly even a criminal. [ ... ] While it's certainly
    > possible to use hacking ability to commit a crime, once you do this you cease
    > being a hacker and commence being a criminal. It's really not a hard distinction to
    > make.

    Thank you, Mr. Goldstein, for making the distinction. Why the media has steadfastly refused to pick up on this for the past 10-12 years is both unfathomable and unforgivable.

  • Good call, can I buy you a beer? At least one post makes sense. And yes I think Goldstien is a pompous ass as well.
  • No one will ever talk good about hackers the media has ruined some good reputations. But you and I know that all programmers began somewhere and the word will never know how many were hackers, to begin with...LOL
  • Only April? I thought I saw this article like a year ago. My, how time flies... I knew it looked familiar. I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers it.
  • I remeber reading this article in the fall or thereabouts of 1998. I would think that CNN would come up with a more updated version of this article and not just run it again to be part of the recent hacker fad. When MTV has done a special on something ("I've been hacked" -Serena Altchul when she really just forgot her password) then it is really mainstream. CNN has just tarnished their image with this re-post in my opinion.
  • responses: 1) they do at the IBM Hursley research labs in the UK 2)I did see a mildly funny cartoon once. (but you're right) 3)Lou Gerstner has cut a lot of the bureaucracy. However a UK employee still has to phone Belgium to request that a guy in the office upstairs give him a replacement keyboard. 4) tee hee. Inside IBM Lotus Notes is used for everything. Lotusscript is almost perfect for macro virii since it has a on_open_mail event. The default security settings will execute arbitary code without asking you first when you open your mailbox. asking for trouble. 5)the new ads have cool music "dum. dum dum dum dum...etc" 6) pick a story. you say they're too grey and then say they're trying to be too young. 7) indeed. 8) plenty of Dilbert in big blue
  • This CNN article is old. I could have swore I read it a couple months ago. Maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe CNN is just recycling the same old crap...

  • Naw, I read this months ago.
  • The reason it is difficult for reporters to write an informative article on hacking is because there is not a clear definition in the underground. The defintion I use is "exploring systems through their functions". This means that rather than learning about a program by looking at the source code, you play around with the compiled version and thus can make assumptions about how it works.
  • Emmanuel is a hacker in the same way that Roger Maris was a baseball player. Respect your elders, whippersnapper.
  • Ya know, I was thinking that EG could use a promo picture that didn't show him looking all shifty-eyed and dangerous. Just his picture alone is gonna scare all those parents and schoolmarms out there.

    If you're offended by people judging you by your appearance, think of grooming as social engineering...

  • Hey -


    I see a lot of support from the rest of the /.ers for Goldstein. But I think Palmer raised the point eloquently when he asked if it would be ok for someone to enter your home, look thru your stuff, and then leave - all w/o your permission (or even possibly, knowledge).


    Goldstein is still a child at heart. He's curious. And, I have the feeling that because every thing is 'lectronic, it's not quite real to him.


    Until people realize that you can indeed "trespass" on "Virtual Real Estate", and accord the same rights to it as exists IRL, the "Netizen" will always be a second class citizen. Goldsteins way of thinking keeps us that way.


    I don't think curiousity should be punished - but some people have to learn to respect other peoples boundaries. It really doens't matter what your motive is, or that you won't do anything damaging with what you learned. If someone puts up a big red sign that says "Do Not Enter" - that should be enough.


    How is an online store any different from a real life one? If I go to the store at the mall, toward the rear there is a door. It's marked "Employees Only". If I go thru, I'm trespassing. It doesn't matter that I'm not taking anything, or doing anything harmful. (while one may debate the merits of whether or not land can be owned, and whether anyone can restrict any one else from accessing it - that is neither here nor there, things are the way they are) If I go to an online store, and start nosing around the back-end of it, is that so different than me going thru an employees only door?

    Like I said, Until people respect online resources in the same ways that they respect the analogs that exist in real life, the online "world" will forever remain a fantasy-land.

    - Porter

  • Since when is Emmanuel a hacker? 2600 magazine is terrible its for script kiddies! I have no respect for a hacking magazine that is sold, thats fine that they need to make money distributing it, but they should post all of their articles on their website, Information is free, its not right when you start cahrging for it, thats not what hacking is about. They should have intervieved someone from Phrack!
  • IBM
    UBM
    We all BM
    For IBM

    *runs*
  • "I honestly believe Goldstien and the 2600 crew
    are in it just for the money. "

    If you actually believe Emmanual (or anyone else at 2600) are making loads of cash publishing 2600 your are mistaken. Still I agree with you on some of his views on web page defacements. Even so you gotta have some respect for the guy-I've always thought of him as the Jello Biafra of hacking: Everyone constantly accusses him of "selling out", when in actuallity hes one of the few that hasn't.
  • How do you remember it wasn't just me who was blind drunk that morning was it. I thought Emmanuel always looked kinda rough, he has his critics but in a scene with so few 'spokesmen' IMO he is as good as they get. (i was the drunk irish fella)
  • Information wants to be $4.95.
  • C:\DOS
    C:\DOS\RUN
    RUN\DOS\RUN

You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish. You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tuna fish. -- from the tunefs(8) man page

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