Philippines Puts Curfew on Internet Cafes for Minors 90
Pao|o writes "The Philippine government, in all its wisdom, has recently passed laws to restrict the use of the net by minors. Read more about it here." Specifically, they're worried about Internet cafes. The story (in the Phillipine Daily Inquirer), says, "Concern over the operation of Internet centers heightened after Supt. Louie Oppus, Tagbilaran police chief, revealed that these establishments are being watched because they have become
favorite hangouts of drug pushers and drug users."
oh great (Score:1)
I still hate the mentality of "hey some people are being bad, so lets not let ANYBODY do it"
This is really on the subject of Truancy (Score:3)
I wouldn't say that this is anything to do with net controls. It seems more the concern of truancy and deliquancy. The curfew hours are 7am-5pm. So the kids can go to the Cafes and stay there all night?
Re:oh great (Score:1)
Curfew purpose (Score:1)
Re:Curfew purpose (Score:2)
j-a-w-a-d------------------------------
Notice curfew not raid (Score:1)
Sometimes I get the feeling every politician being somewhat socially conscious wants to be the director, writer, and producer of his/her own live soap opera.
I've learned more on /. than 12 years on Public Ed (Score:2)
we've got trouble, right here in river city (Score:1)
Great place for drug dealing (Score:1)
Still, would be a bastard if I needed to check email really quickly during curfew time just before or after school at nearby cafe.
Better make it safe, give everybody a concrete bunker with no windows and connection to outside world. Only allow them out one hour a day, should ensure they don't get too influenced by the evils outside.
Internet not welcome to certain governments (Score:3)
People in 'unfree' countries aren't dumb, but they don't have ways to inform themselves except for the government-ruled media (see Iraq, Serbia etc.). So the Internet can help people forming an opinion on political questions that is made up on the basis of facts, not propaganda. Unfortunately, access to the Internet is restricted already by the simple fact that even a low-cost PC is not affordable in many countries, even without artificial intervention by governments. Hopefully, this will change. As long as access is only possible at a couple of internet cafes, control is still relatively easy, you simply have to close them for whatever reason you come up with (drugs dealers etc.).
A warning for concerned parents. (Score:3)
Washington, DC: Talk with Al Gore, inventor of the Internet.
Minneapolis, MN: Speak with Gov. Jesse Ventura, wrestler-turned-idiot-politician about Minnesota's new edukation initiative - "Just Say No To Wires".
Redmond, WA: Interview with Bill Gates on the benefits of using ActiveSex, a new protocol designed to limit sexual desires online.
Austin, TX: We'll be going door to door, and toe to toe with Dell Corporation on integrating Vchip technology into the next generation of computers.
Silicon Valley, CA: An exclusive interview with Steve Jobs - we'll ask him about the iSex, a new product he plans on marketing to make online sex easier than ever.
We hope you'll join us in our fight to help secure the internet against the tyranny of sex, and promote freedom and dignity for all.
- FUD.
--
damn (Score:1)
oh well i guess theres always home to hook up onto the internet or... just go do whatever you do to have fun over there (god knows what with thos rules) probaly just look at the celeing and count dots or something.
What's wrong with this? (Score:3)
Re:damn (Score:1)
This isn't some horrific travesty against humanity (Score:2)
Re:we've got trouble, right here in river city (Score:1)
makes me think... (Score:2)
I was a truant myself. Except I'd hang out in arcades, movies, comic shops and so on. THey'd all have a "no one under 18 between 8am and 3:30pm" policy or whatever. now truants are computer geeks. My, how the world changes in such a short time. programming is what made me stay in school.. (the cute chica that used to sit next to me in english class helped a little too)... now i'm about to graduate with a BS in CS (hey, i made a rhyme!) and now the computers are making kids skip school? Funny, really... Being an American born Filipino it makes me wonder if the schools over there even have computers and internet. I've never been there, and from family tales and photos it looks like it's pretty underdeveloped... At least the areas where my family is from.
It's not the pushier fault (Score:1)
heheheh... (Score:1)
and if they don't comply... (Score:1)
a deep misconception about internet access (Score:1)
While I have never been the the Philippines, I can bet that those kids who were banned access have very little access to the net. Perhaps you should ask yourself why the police have decided to crack down on "internet access" as opposed to TV or movie access during school hours.
Let's see....on the net, you can get free access to political criticism, such as these posts?
What I find interesting is how easily people fall for these pathetic excuses:
1) We are trying to prevent children from getting bad ideas and wasting their time during school hours. What's wrong with that?
2) We are trying to prevent disorder among children and people. They should be studying or working anyway. What's wrong with that?
3) We are trying to prevent people from getting into illegal politics and thinking of dangerous ideas. What's wrong with preventing crime?
There you go. If you agree with any of the above, you need to think deeply. Or join the local law enforcement.
Re:heheheh... (Score:2)
But that's all beside the point; the curfew isn't about the man keeping kids away from technology; it's about kids needing to be in school during school. the fact that this curfew is targeted at internet cafes is irrelevant; it could just as easily have been video arcades...but that wouldn't have shown up on
Re:Internet not welcome to certain governments (Score:2)
You find this very easy to apply to foreign governments like the horrible godawful Serbia and Iraq, but you seem to have forgot to mention that the governments that have been most active in strangling freedom on the Internet lately have been America's, the EU's, and Australia's regimes.
Which just happens to be pretty much the entire western "democractic" world...
Of course, unlike Iraq and Serbia which are run by horrible power hungry people whose single goal is to oppress there citizens, our benivolent governments are doing this to fight the horrible terrophiles. We should thank them!
My ass. How free are you yourself when it comes down to it? And are you dumb or just uninformed?
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Huh??? (Score:2)
Slashdot's international focus (Score:1)
I want to commend
It makes people see beyond their pathetic local TV coverage about the stupid high-school basketball team or car chase or prevention of scientific ideas and understand what's going on in the rest of the world.
I only wish more people from other countries would post.
Somebody got their priorities straight (Score:2)
It is good to see a country accepting the responsibility for its children. Instead of throwing their hands up and getting them out of their hands with vouchers or other such garbage.
The wacko libertarian racist viewpoint has been expressed elsewhere in this thread though, as you would expect from the usual
Re:Slashdot's international focus (Score:1)
Yeah, its so great that we are point fingers and screaming censorship and oppression because a city in a democratic country won't let kids go to Internet cafes during school hours. Goes to show that America has finally matured in it's attitude to other countries and cultures!
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Re:we've got trouble, right here in river city (Score:1)
What I find most interesting is the automatic presumption by so many ./ers that The Man is always wrong.
How many of you live in that part of the world? That country? That city? Do you know the unique social conditions involved?
No? Then just suppose that the police are correct, and that the 'net cafes really are bad places for kids to be. With that supposition, I don't see that this curfew necessarily has anything at all to do with the Internet and its "open liberal ways".
Re:This is really on the subject of Truancy (Score:2)
The Phillipines has grown up (Score:2)
The point that seems to missing here is how much the Phillipines has matured. 5 years ago, an average citizen could not possibly use the Internet. Even now, outside of large cities, most homes don't have a telephone. In rural areas, one public cellular is often shared by the entire community.
It is very nice to see that the Phillipines is embracing technology. Maybe this (along with politcal reforms which seem to be coming slowly) will help the Phillipines out of a very bad economic situation.
you oughta add US to those countries as well... (Score:1)
You think THAT's bad... (Score:1)
Tonga law prohibits any person from appearing in a public without a shirt.
(reference: Kingdom of Tonga - Facts [tvb.gov.to])
I agree..... (Score:1)
stundents are allowed to use.
Re:Slashdot's international focus (Score:1)
Potential problem : this might lead to some endless "my-country-does-it-better-than-yours" flamebait, and more precisely a great deal of America-Bashing (which is almost as popular a sport in continental Europe as M$-Bashing is among Linux lovers - wonder why
I don't even want to think about pseudo-political debates where nobody would understand what the other means ("socialist" or "liberal" have very different meaning on either side of the ocean).
I know this. I have even done it - foolish me
All in all, is
Thomas , rather French indeed.
Re:a deep misconception about internet access (Score:1)
Maybe they are cracking down on all of the above. The great Internet is sensational enough to be news.
To answer your questions:
1) I pay tax money (at least in the U.S.
2) If I paid for the opportunity for someone to get education, I would certainly hope they do. If they don't even try, why should they expect unemployment compensation later in life?
3) Are you talking about politics or the drugs? I think they should crack down on the drugs.
There you go. If you agree with any of the above, you need to think deeply. Or join the local law enforcement.
I think you need to go back and think about it more deeply.
Re:you oughta add US to those countries as well... (Score:1)
a couple of them invented slashdot didn't they?
Re:This isn't some horrific travesty against human (Score:1)
To me this really seems to be an excuse for censorship.
Re:This isn't some horrific travesty against human (Score:1)
Re:Somebody got their priorities straight (Score:2)
* Have the usual anti-truancy regulations, that aren't location-specific. If they have those, and presumably they do, then that should cover 'net cafes, as well. Truancy in a 'net cafe is still truancy.
* If these 'net cafes are *really* dens of iniquity, then they should be able to crack down on 'em -- given that there aren't that many, according to the article; and it would seem likely that the business owners would be at least somewhat liable.
The justification that they give is... odd. If pushers go to the schools, will they evict the pushers or the students?
Hey, your prejudiced slips are showing... (Score:4)
Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm a from that country... and I'd like to note a few things:
New Moderation Tag: Nutso (Score:1)
That way we don't have to read half-way through the post before we realize someone's a raving lunatic.
Close the Supermarkets, Roads, Bus Stations (Score:1)
Ban milk & bread sales, too.
The Bad Guys gain vital sustenance from this as well.
Re:Technology in the Third World (Score:1)
Because you are punishing and restricting one group of people for the actions of another. Instead of trying to catch the drug dealers, they kick out all the kids.
What is interesting is that the Philippines will probably be a good illustration of whether technology can solve all our ills, or if it merely causes more problems.
Name me one person who has claimed that we can. Simply throwing technology or money at a problem without any thought to execution is going to fail.
I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like this was happening in any small town in the U.S.
And I certainly hope that people will raise hell about it. Even if this is only one small town in the Philipines, other cities or the government might impliment it if people don't stand up for themselves.
Re:a deep misconception about internet access (Score:1)
What about if the education they are getting is Shit(tm)? Like it is in many parts of the world... (at least the one's i have been to)
dufke
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Re:Huh??? (Score:1)
That's my 1/50 of $1.00 US
JM
Re:Internet not welcome to certain governments (Score:1)
Re:heheheh... (Score:1)
Underwhelmed (Score:2)
Point the first: These kids are supposed to be in school, going to school, or coming home from school, during the hours of the ban. I know we all agree that The Internet Is A Wonderful Thing, but so is a structured and regular education. That's part of how we in America invented the Internet in the first place-- a large body of mandatorily educated adults.
When someone can make a good demonstration that a child sitting unsupervised on the Internet for eight hours a day will be more aptly prepared for the complexities of adult life, I'll rethink my position.
I smell sacred cow-burger because this involves the Internet.
Point the second: This is not entirely different from passing laws to keep your kid out of video arcades during the day.
Point the Third: We are talking about children, here. It is accepted legal policy (and just plain good sense) that children by their natures are not the most qualified individuals to plot the courses of their own lives. We can quibble about statistical outliers, special circumstances, and whether the cutoff should be 14, 16, 18, or 21 years, but the sense of it remains.
Therefore, children do not have the same spectrum of rights as adults. Among other things, they are told to get their kiesters in school, not to drink, not to do drugs, not to gamble, not to drive automobiles, and so forth.
When they become adults, their status and spectrum of rights change accordingly.
Point the Fourth: The only way this law could be improved is to split the fine between the legal gaurdians (to keep the parents' responsibilities uppermost in their minds) and the shopkeepers (to prevent them from enticing the kids with impunity.) That, and maybe apply the same fines (if they are not already) to comic book shops, video arcades, movie theaters, and wherever else Philippine kids spent their truancy hours, these days.
Re:a deep misconception about internet access (Score:1)
Public Education does, and will always, crappy ass waste of money. As soon as a government forms a monopoly on something, the quality of that something goes straight downhill.
Legally requiring kids to go to school is also bullshit, especially after they can read/wright/and "do math".
Privatize Public Schools!
Note: You're right, the education is Shit(TM).
On dumbness (Score:1)
I was referring to the often-heard prejudice that people under the rule of a dictatorship, which are often poor countries as well, must be dumb because they don't organize against it, protest and oust their leaders.
This is nonsense as they must fear for their lives / freedom if they do.
Re:Internet not welcome to certain governments (Score:1)
Yes, but the difference is one of implementation, not idea.
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CNN (Score:1)
not a big deal (Score:2)
We should be more worried about laws like those being passed in Australia and elsewhere, than something that seems reasonable and narrow in focus like this...
Re:What's wrong with this? (Score:1)
I'm not sure what you're getting at here.. I've seen at least one posting from someone who lives there, and I've got my score limit set relatively high, so there are most likely others from said country who're posting as well. I won't debate the merit of the article itself (except to say that I think the 'from the ... dept' byline was a bit hasty), but I think that it has brought some interesting issues up, and I don't see why the fact that it doesn't come from some recognised 'big country' makes it all that unimportant to some.
You're the one behind the console; if you look at an article and can easily decide that it has no effect on you, you don't hafta read it. The sports page in the newspaper doesn't affect me whatsoever, but that doesn't mean I write to my editor to ask it removed. I don't want Slashdot to try to decide what I want to read; the papers already try that, and they fail abysmally.
I apologise; I know this is offtopic, but I felt it needed to be said. As for the issue itself, I'm not sure what it's really about. Truancy (the story), drug dealers and stuff (another part of the story), censorship (a possible implication), or anything else. But I really do wonder (not to be cynical, just curious) why their Internet Cafes are such a truancy problem. I know that here, a call goes home to the parents immediately upon the student's first skipped class, and as a result, very few students skip regularly. Actually, very few as of last year; that policy just went into place this year now, and it would seem that the result is that I see certain regular skippers from last year actually in class these days. Wow.
In retrospect, I think the title of this thread is actually somewhat fitting. We seem to have solved our truancy problem without resorting to this kind of thing, and via a system that doesn't take too much effort to implement, or too much skill to come up with. And it doesn't involve banning certain media, either.
Sorta makes you wonder what they're really up to, doesn't it?
Re:This is really on the subject of Truancy (Score:1)
isn't 7pm to early for a curfew? and why have a daytime curfew. personally, this law does not make sense.
Re:Hey, your prejudiced slips are showing... (Score:1)
Re:Underwhelmed (Score:1)
True. I do too.
> Point the second: This is not entirely different from passing laws to keep your kid out of video arcades during the day.
They probably have one of those too. This is just an extension of the video arcade curfew ordinances, I think.
>Point the Fourth: The only way this law could be improved is to split the fine between the legal gaurdians (to keep the parents' responsibilities
>uppermost in their minds) and the shopkeepers (to prevent them from enticing the kids with impunity.) That, and maybe apply the same fines (if
>they are not already) to comic book shops, video arcades, movie theaters, and wherever else Philippine kids spent their truancy hours, these
>days.
If it's like the videogame ordinances we have here, there isn't any fine. They just call up your parents and turn you over. (kids can't pay fines, they barely have enough for lunch money).
Filipino parents aren't like American parents. They generally are very strict with regards to education... getting all your kids through college is the dream of almost all Pinoy parents I know, no matter where they come from.
Re:Slashdot's international focus (blech) (Score:1)
Did you actually read the article?
This is an instance of a local police chief doing his job for a change... they round up kids who aren't in school, and turn 'em over to their parents.
"Police effort"? An small-city ordinance probably written by a cop who probably has a kid who does skip school for IRC is suddenly national policy?
Jeez. Cafes aren't being censored. Hell, they don't need to use to Internet to get all the porn they want - our movie industry turns out nothing but X-rated flicks. which any kid can rent at the corner video store. (besides, we've got better looking babes/hunks than you do. So there.
The situation here, halfway across the world from your comfortable country, isn't as dire as it seems.
Re:a deep misconception about internet access (Score:2)
1) They can waste their time in school too. The Tagbilaran police merely inform your parents if kids are caught skipping school for IRC. Our schools are pretty liberal - most of their problems stem from lack of resources, not censorship.
2) Note that the curfew is from 7AM to 5PM. Whatever you do outside those hours is your concern. This means you can hit IRC after school and skip homework, *if your parents let you*.
3) We get plenty of politics and dangerous ideas in school. Press freedom is important here. (Witness the rallies and headlines here - we're currently fighting for our right to criticize the government...)
That being said - you're thinking of China, perhaps, or Singapore. Funny how all those Orientals all look alike, right?
Re:On dumbness (Score:1)
Well, I don't think it applies here. We fought off a dictatorship 13 years ago, and the memories are still fresh. (I know mine are.
If you want proof, read the current headlines here. (Yeah, start with the Philippine Daily Inquirer, if you want). We know how to defend our press freedom, and if the media ever knuckles under, we still have other methods.
Hell, we've got lots of people who still remember how to fire an AK-47 around...
Re:Hey, your prejudiced slips are showing... (Score:1)
He repealed the 1935 Constitution, wrote up a fresh one, and held power until 1986.
Can't remember some of the dates, cause it's hard to remember details when you're a little kid and your family is on the run...
Re:Technology in the Third World (Score:1)
>out all the kids.
Hello? they're kicking out the kids from 7AM to 5PM - school time. After school, they can stay all night if their parents let 'em.
>And I certainly hope that people will raise hell about it. Even if this is only one small town in the Philipines, other cities or the government might
>impliment it if people don't stand up for themselves.
This isn't that different from preventing minors from entering videogame arcades during school hours. Come on, you're so afraid of the Man, everything must be a "liberty or death" issue with you people.
Only middle-class and upper-class kids can afford Internet cafes. Most people don't or can't use computers over here. Even if Internet news was censored, you'd be cutting off news to a small percentage of kids who aren't that interested in current affairs, anyway.
Be more concerned that the Philippine government is using strongarm tactics to push local papers to do its bidding. They're not backing down, but its gonna be close. Internet freedom is a non-issue right now - because the Internet reaches too few of our people to make a difference.
And besides, what does access to the Internet mean to a normal Pinoy kid? IRC and mtvasia.com. Hardly the liberating stuff you people seem to think we need.
Re:we've got trouble, right here in river city (Score:1)
Well, I live in the same country, and there's an Internet cafe right next door, so I think I can add something to support your points.
>No? Then just suppose that the police are correct, and that the 'net cafes really are bad places for kids to be. With that supposition, I don't see
>that this curfew necessarily has anything at all to do with the Internet and its "open liberal ways".
I haven't seen any drug dealers around, but the local pimps do hang out in this area. Right next to the police outpost, too.
That being said - most kids who can afford Internet cafes are the middle-class to lower-upper -class ones. This means cafes tend to spring up in "nice" neighborhoods, and only kids with money are found in them. Nice juicy targets for your local shabu dealer.
The curfew won't make any difference with the druggies - but it won't make much difference with 'Net freedom, too. Most activists here are well past high-school age (HS graduates are 16 or 17) and many universities are already on the Net.
Besides, for information, text-messaging has a wider reach here - text pagers are awfully cheap.
More students have pagers than email addresses.
That being said, see the other posts here about this being a local ordinance, not a law.
Re:You think THAT's bad... (Score:1)
Re:Technology in the Third World (Score:1)
The point is that they are specifically targeting 'net cafe's and not truancy in general. So the kids can't browse the net at 3 pm but they can go to the bowling alley?
And besides, what does access to the Internet mean to a normal Pinoy kid? IRC and mtvasia.com. Hardly the liberating stuff you people seem to think we need.
Wether or not they do is irrelevant. The important thing is that they can. Much like 18 year olds being able to vote in the US although they have some of the worst turnouts.
Good measures, if part of a wider policy (Score:1)
However, in addition to these measures to keep children from shirking classes, we must take into consideration what Philippine law enactment and enforcement agencies have done to make sure that:
(1) a decent proportion of national income is invested in education.
(2) children, regardless of the financial background, are offered sufficient opportunities to quality education.
The more it is clear that the Philippine government means business, in dealing with the education of the children, the more easily people will accept this kind of restrictions in their freedom and the freedom of their children, in order for them to stand a better chance in their lives.
Quite a lot of people consider freedom to be a goal in itself. I think, however, that freedom must be weighed against the other goals that the community may have, including the goal to achieve better living standards for the next generation.
From the wealthy suburbs of middle-class America, people may take a dim look on restrictions on personal freedom, but I am sure that the Phillipinos, given their relatively low level of income, can be convinced to throw part of it in the balance.
Re:This is really on the subject of Truancy (Score:2)
Re:A warning for concerned parents. (Score:1)
Be careful. Many people think that Gore invented the Internet, and this is simply wrong. He actually invented the electron, the Internet is just based on that tecnology
...Which raises the question - is going wrestler-to-politician a step-up or step-down?
The technology is rather simple- it is based on the amounts of javascript and java applets on most porn pages. By not supporting javascript of java applets correctly, the web browser automatically crashes when going to web pages of dubious persuit. This gives a strong desire to avoid those pages via psycological conditioning (a la A Clockwork Orange)
The Internet Explorer browser did this for years, before they realized that they could market this technology.
Since all computers require Windows 98, why get Dell involved at all? Just use ActiveSex technology.
Hmmm.. "She comes in colors, everywhere..."
Re:Technology in the Third World (Score:1)
>net at 3 pm but they can go to the bowling alley?
Well, our town (in the Philippines) also has a similar ordinance for videogame arcades. I'd think this was just an extension of that ordinance.
Besides, what's the difference between 3 PM and 5 PM? Make 'em actually stay in school for two more hours.
>Wether or not they do is irrelevant. The important thing is that they can. Much like 18 year olds being able to vote in
>the US although they have some of the worst turnouts.
All right - I'll admit that was a bit vague. I was trying to point out that Internet cafes are still too expensive for the "average" Pinoy child (who, last I looked, was still living below the poverty line). This will only affect the small fraction of Pinoy kids who can afford Net cafes.
Also - this is only targeted at elementary and High school students - 17 years old, maximum. Once you graduate high school, you're an adult. that's usually when you turn 17 or 18.
It's true, the Internet is drug-pushers' Heaven (Score:1)
Yes, it's true: I'm a junkie, and the Internet is my hook-up. Damn them all for finding out the truth!
Beer recipe: free! #Source
Cold pints: $2 #Product
Re:Good measures, if part of a wider policy (Score:1)
It's the last paragraph that kinda sounds somewhat different.
> From the wealthy suburbs of middle-class America, people may take a dim look on restrictions on personal
> freedom, but I am sure that the Phillipinos, given their relatively low level of income, can be convinced to throw part
> of it in the balance.
Ok. So since we're poor, it's ok to give up some of our personal freedom, just to achieve "better living standards"?
No, thank you. That's been tried before. Hey, for all I know, it may work (in other Asian countries, even) but we Pinoys have been exposed too long to American ideology. You know, every individual's unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of pogi points.
Re:You think THAT's bad... (Score:1)
Re:a deep misconception about internet access (Score:1)
Well, that was not neccesarily my point. I was talking about the general concept of teaching, as it is done in schools. (Devoid of inspiration/interest.)
As a matter of fact, the public schools i have gone to were, as far as teaching goes better than private ones. But my comparison on that issue is invalid anyway, since the private schools I have seen where American, and the public were Swedish... The rumors i have heard of American public school seem to point in the direction you are indicating.
Schools should be a legal requirement, but they need to change a lot!!!
dufke_ ___________
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Re:Hey, your prejudiced slips are showing... (Score:1)
20 plus -7 equals 13. (: