AT&T vs MCI on Network Outages 62
James Ensor writes "
Cnn.com is running an interesting article comparing MCI Worldlnet's recent frame relay outage to an outage that AT&T had last year, comparing their method's of handling the situation. Good Reading. " It's fun to watch major corporations blunder about. Unless it's your connection that's down.
I knew I'd read about my employeer here some day. (Score:3)
Yeah, the point about all the companies within MCI Worldcom rings true. Like the MCI local network, MCI long distance network, Worldcom long distnace network, and the Worldcom local network (which is actually the MFS local network and the Brooks fiber local network). Then you've got a layer on top of that, like UUNet. Not all that straightforward. They are working on these issues, though.
Responsibility issues? They are there. You should see the hoops I have to go through just to get someone in the same building to investigate a problem within our own LAN. MCI highly emphasises "the procedure".
But the story that Slashdot should be covering isn't the frame network outage. It is MCI's agreement to sell off their IT department to EDS. Most everyone assumed it has gone through. Guess what? They made the announcement 6+ months ago, and the deal (along with IT) is hanging in limbo.
Will we work for EDS? MCI? Do we get our current stock options? Benefits? Policies? Management is saying absolutely nothing. Rumors are flying that the negotiations are going bad and neither side wants to walk away because of a hefty $$ penalty. Even an arbitrator hasn't helped. (That's right, an arbitrator just to reach an agreement. Heaven help both sides over the next five years.)
The entire IT department of a major corporation that can't even say what conditions they will be working under next month. How smart is that?
The main problem is that EDS is a very bad fit for a company like MCI Worldcom. EDS is great for an organization that is low-growth, low-innovation, and reliability situations aren't critical. Say, a local government. But a phone company? Oh boy.
I can't say I know an employee that is enthusiastic about the merger. The only management that claims to love the idea is from the VP level and up.
Re:Monopoly (Score:1)
MCI Left our T1 on for 18 months! (Score:1)
I work for AT&T in Advanced Network Services-ATTWS (Score:1)
Then do tons of documentation so it never happens again!
I work daily with the technical support team. Their job is to solve problems, not pass the buck. And if they cant fix it, it goes up the chain of support, And yes all the way to Frank Ianna.
Our goal is no more than 5 minutes of unplanned outage a year. Thats our motto at the office. (Damn good one also)
I've used both and the winner is.... (Score:2)
It's their own fault... (Score:1)
Re:I was suprised (Score:1)
bottom line: lazy people that can't prevent disasters can only find scape goats. stay away from them or they'll pick YOU!
Management is not outsourced (Score:1)
I agree MCI Worldcom should take the blame. They should have focused more on the customer's needs and backed out the software to get the network back up. It was clearly the fault of upper management for listening to the vendor and his "assumptions" and "recommendations". The customer should be faulted for blind faith, not the vendor.
If the sales reps had information and decided not to contact their customers, I'm not sure if that's a management problem or a weasely sales sales person problem. Either way, there wasn't very much information available because not very much was known or understood about the problem. For the longest time (the first week or so)Lucent even claimed it wasn't a result of the software upgrade!
Re:Sprint? (Score:1)
Same here. I work(ed) (still part time when they need me) for a small ISP (no T3's there anytime soon) that used Sprintlink for backbone and Sprint for local service. First, their local guys kick ass. After all the local telco jokes, these guys were a pleasant surprise. They knew how to do it and could deliver a channelized T1 or PRI a week within ordering, 2 weeks in the worse case. Another ISP I have had contact with in GTE land has to order 3-4 months ahead and the usual reaction is T-what?
Sprintlink has been very reliable. We had a little trouble with not enough bandwidth leaving the local POP we connect to, but they got it figured out eventually. In fact, we were going to replace them with someone cheaper, signed the contracts, got the new feed in, and after testing it, are trying to get out of the contracts. They sucked. Sprintlink is well worth the extra money.
Sounds about right (Score:1)
It seems like in the race to save a dollar companies have forgotten that most folks will pay a little extra for good service. Perhaps they should teach that concept in business school. Wait, I graduated from one and they didn't teach that. To damn busy doing SWOT analysis, Gannet charts and critical path analysis to worry about User Experience. IBM and AT&T haven't been around forever and a day letting their customers go away mad.
And this is why I do not work for large companies. (Score:1)
I thought working for a large companies would insure stability in your career but with the woes of MCI (does our frame relay and one T-1 from UUNet) and SGI (go back to Silicon Graphics) who needs that type of instability?
On the other hand, my current small company is trying to write up policies and procedures so I guess I will be looking for another job soon.
ChozSun [e-mail] [mailto]
Sprint? (Score:1)
AT&T employees will like this (Score:1)
I have a lot of friends that are AT&T employees in R&D. On day 8 of the MCI outage, I mentioned the MCI outage to them. They hadn't heard about it and were damned pissed about it also. After April 1998, when they saw AT&T outage on the front page, etc. and all the heads rolling around them, they couldn't believe that MCI wasn't being eaten alive. 8 days! Then MCI goes and blames it on Lucent. That really got these guys going since Lucent all but shares buildings with them (actually they did up until 3 months ago).
Thank god one of the journalist crowd has a clue about this and published. Very impressive.
I changed my service on Day 9 (Score:1)
My old housemate had moved to Europe and they offered decent international rates, so for once I said 'yes' to one of those telemarketers that I usually hate being bothered by.
I did tell them that the only real reason that I was switching was because MCI really messed up. Of course, I was talking to a 3rd party telemarketer who probably has 1000 resumes our trying to get a real job and really doesn't care about telecommunications in the least bit.
But it made me feel better.
Re:Just goes to prove my theory (Score:1)
And besides, there's even a beta of a driver for the thing, if you happen to be running OS/2
Re:It's MCIWorldCom... (Score:1)
Chris
Re:It's MCIWorldCom... (Score:1)
j-a-w-a-d------------------------------
replace
policies and procedures aren't that bad, are they? (Score:1)
Maybe you mean something more sinister by "policies and procedures"?
CNN (Score:1)
picture on the article?
Monopoly (Score:1)
What's most interesting... (Score:1)
This rang somewhat true, and in the years since, I watched AT&T live up to this accusation. Until now...
I'm wondering if I was a bit too eager to write them off. Maybe AT&T actually does have a future...
Unfortunantly... (Score:1)
I never liked MCI (Score:2)
Putting blame on others is also quite common.
I get that impression from many American companies. An embedded company called TERN gave me similar BS at a previous job.
Their development tools were antiquated, the board was defective and they refused to replace it. Transferring new code kept giving CRC errors, and sometimes it would get through, but with errors. They gave me a similar runaround, claiming that all of our computers, including my Dell Dimension XPS 200, had "nonstandard" serial ports that couldn't keep up with 57.6k. Yeah right.
I finally got to the "CEO" (small company) who told me that GM had the very same problem with 100 different new computers, and that all of those computers were bad.
Yeah, right.
We hauled the boards out of both of the projects we were working on and replaced them with cool, reliable ZWorld [zworld.com] boards.
Development time shrunk immensely, and reliability was great. Their tech support was also extremely good, they would email me code snippets and everything. They also encouraged messing around with their libraries, I thought that was excellent and found them well written and easy to hack.
Hmmm... Parallels the referenced article quite well. Goes to show, if you're not satisfied, walk. It makes all the difference.
Waiting for another bug to finish them off... (Score:1)
What's really sad is the freakin' Chicago Board of Trade got the same clueless response I did! It was always some other group's problem when I called. My account number started with a J and whoever was on the phone didn't handle J accounts. I must have talked to 10 different finance groups between MCI and C&W before I found somebody who knew what was going on...
The business weasels in charge probably wouldn't have heard about the outage if the stock hadn't tanked that day.
MCI sucks, pass it on...
I didn't do it! (Score:1)
Yes indeedy.. the quickest way out of a situation is to make sure you don't get the flak for it..
Of course, that means that the "smoking gun" left the gunpowder traces on your hand(s).. so, in the end [if not before] we all know you did it anyways.. so why bother hiding it?
I was suprised (Score:2)
just my 0.02$
Coincidence? (Score:1)
"One reason why George Washington Is held in such veneration: He never blamed his problems On the former Administration." -- George O. Ludcke
Serendipitous or nice touch?
Re:I was suprised (Score:1)
Reminds me of the way Ebay kept making up excuses for their down time: it's not our fault, blame Solaris!
I always wondered how they expected to maintain a good relationship with Sun's engineers, after they pointed the finger at them and called them every name in the book.
--
It's MCIWorldCom... (Score:1)
Note that this is the same company who still handles payroll via paper and Federal Express.
Re:It's MCIWorldCom... (Score:1)
bandwidth (like NASA needs sometimes for instance)
you go with FedEx.
Came up in a job interview once -- interviewer
asked me how I would transfer terabytes of info
from their NY office to their SF office as
quickly as possible (this was a good real
problem they were dealing with at the moment).
They had a few T1's which were nearly saturated,
but a pretty good internal backup system (you've
got to if your throwing around that much data).
I told them to put the data on tape (clearly as
dense as they have available for best results)
and overnight FedEx them. Cheap, fast, and
hopefully reliable.
(They made me a good offer but I went elsewhere
--don't know if they FedEx-ed their data after
all or not).
deliver info. by email? how, if it's down.... (Score:1)
Honesty pays (Score:2)
We can draw a lesson from this. Most of the source of anger against Microsoft is the fact that they close the ranks and engage in finger-pointing when there's a problem, and attack the competition with FUD instead of concentrating on a better product. The Linux world, which is for the most part inherently honest (thanks to the Open Source paradigm), earns the reputation of a better product.
Another lesson to draw from this: it is better to be open about the strengths and weaknesses of Linux than to just plain Microsoft bash. But then again, this is already in the Linux Advocacy HOWTO.
Re:QWest (Score:1)
Just goes to prove my theory (Score:2)
Just goes to show one reason why AT&T and IBM have stuck around this long after having their monopolies broken up -- they realized that they could no longer compete with the same old "kill the competition" practices, and went ahead and started providing service. Of course, I also like IBM and (what used to be Bell Labs) Lucent for their significant outlay for R&D. That sort of thing can't be over-estimated in the value it gives a company that can afford it.
What is the meaning of this ramble? Not much, except to maybe provide some food for thought towards what Microsoft might be like it gets its ass kicked by the DoJ
Re:It's MCIWorldCom... (Score:1)
Chicago Board of Trade (Score:1)
Redundancy and QoS? Cripes, the half-assed (or full assed) ISP I belong to is dual-homed, and probably has no problem keeping things running because of it. MCI seems to have no QoS policy.
I think the Chicago Board of Trade should send a wake-up call to MCI and change providers, possibly to AT&T. THAT would get their attention. If it doesn't, it should signal the other big subscribers to MCI to find other sources of bandwitdth.
Re:Chicago Board of Trade (Score:1)
If you really care, you don't put your life in someone else's hands. You plan for your primary provider to go tango upsilon. You plan for the day when the grid goes south. You plan for the day when everyone decides to SELL SELL SELL and flood your feeds with orders.
One thing I've learned about finger pointing; when you point a finger at someone, three more point back at you. When you trust a big carrier to run your network because all you want to hire are knuckle dragging idiots, then you have no one to blame but yourself when things go wrong and you can't fix them.
I wouldn't expect any less from the CBT crew - they think rebooting the NT systems every evening to maintain reliability during the day is actually reasonable. Puh-leeze :-P
Yes, they DO suck (Score:1)
1) It took them two months to get it setup and installed! All the while, we were chewing on Sprint, trying to get them to keep us on for a little while longer (we'd already dumped and reactivated the Ts twice).
2) When we finally did get them installed and working (which, BTW, we had to do ourselves. MCI/WC swore that the tech they sent would be able to configure a Definity G3 switch. he didn't. I learned a lot about phone switch administration that week), the two voice T1s would lose channels at complete random intervals, sometimes dropping to as few as 2 channels per line.
3) The third T1 had all 12 voice channels......and no data. It took over 3 months before we had an Internet connection on that line. Well, 2 months, 27 days, over 400' of ethernet wire (212' run installed and replaced), and one bridge later.
Fortunately for the ADSL users around my home, we have GTE running the lines (yes, I know, most of you hate GTE, but they've been wonderful for me) and only 2 providers subscribe to MCI's backbone. One (mine) colocated their Cisco with GTE at the frame relay network interconnection point, so my ADSL pipe is only 1 hop away from either Level3 or UUNet (I know UUNet is part of MCI, so we just used Level3 for those 10 days).
Re:It's MCIWorldCom... (Score:1)