Beaming Money 175
Wes writes "If you've ever dreamed of having a system like they use on Star Trek, where credits are instantly passed back and forth, this is it. PayPal, from Confinity will let you do that. Just sign up, load the software onto your Palm or WinCE device and go. If the other person doesn't have the software, you can IR-beam it to them, same as transferring money. Never fear if you don't have a handheld. An e-mail address will do just fine, but no money beaming. Sounds like a new payment type for eBay. "
Re:Wonderful... (Score:2)
Re:What an amazingly bad idea (Score:1)
Meaning, both my PDA and the other party's PDA would record the specifics of the transaction including the amount of transfer and who the money was transferred from and to. Money wouldn't change hands until both ends had been synched to the server.
This may not be the way they're doing it and would certainly eliminate some of the convenience, but it would keep money from electro-magically appearing out of the ether.
Are we ready for this (Score:1)
And I'm not necessarily meaning that someone is going to walk around with that massive IR panel hooked into a palm with an IR sniffer (idea!), but there's much larger worries lurking overhead.
No, not the little green men from Mars (that's a different story). Remember back 30 years or so when we detonated a nuke in space to see the effects? No damage, except an EMP shockwave that ruined a good deal of all electronics in the pacific (Hawaii too I believe, I can't remember much, anyone want to follow up on these old projects?).
The military, and in some rare instances, even law enforcment use EMP to nuetralize sensitive areas, in a package smaller than a Pringles tube. It shorts out most electronics and wiring without too much of a problem.
Now obviously this technology can be applied well (like EMP car horns! they'll never go that slow in the left lane again!), yet there can be mailicious uses. yet, when I think about it, there're malicious uses for cardboard so we're never really safe.
Just another thing to think about before we all even considering jumping on another bandwagon.
--me
----------------------------------
Anyone else remember VisiOn?
rob_them.c (Score:1)
int answer;
main()
{
printf("gimme yer money");
scanf("%d", &answer);
if(answer == 1)
beamthem();
else
takeitbyforce();
}
Re:Pictures of VCs beaming $3 million to Confinity (Score:1)
Effective gesture, though. They wouldn't have put $3 mil on the line without a well tested system!
That's kind of circular :) (Score:1)
Who am I?
Why am here?
Where is the chocolate?
Pictures of VCs beaming $3 million to Confinity! (Score:1)
http://www.buckswoodside.com/s tories/storyReader$218 [buckswoodside.com]
Old news (Score:1)
I can't find the column on their online version; must have been pre-1995 (back when it there actually was BOARD in boardwatch, instead of this "internet" stuff...
-Chris
Digital cash (Score:1)
I wonder if these folks managed to get them for a song...
As for folks wondering how this is done, there are some excellent examples of digital money protocols in Applied Cryptography, a must-read for anyone who finds this interesting.
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:1)
james
Re:Notice the investors... (Score:2)
Re:I'll stick with cash (Score:1)
I can't be traced: oh, yeah? Where can you spend a lot of cash and not be traced!
refunds are easy: Where are refunds easy? I always seem to have to show a receipt, show ID, and fill out/sign a form.
and I know if someone's trying to use my money: After they've robbed you, you might know if they're using your money, but you won't know who or where!
Cash and checks are increasingly uncommon in Europe, especially checks. Smart cards may face a hostile environment here in the USA, but Visa and MasterCard at least provide some protections against unauthorized use that might occur. Cash will only be protected by a safe, a gun, the police, or moral behaviour. I say, bring on some smart, technologically intelligent alternatives!
Re:What's the catch? (Score:2)
Re:Notice the investors... (Score:2)
Re:I'll use paper for now, thanks. (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
I'll use paper for now, thanks. (Score:2)
James
Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:2)
The cloaking device
The transporter (old news I know)
The medical tricorder
The warp drive
Pon farr (okay, getting laid for the first time in seven years probably doesn't count
Nearly all references are bogus; none of them (except the warp drive) are analagous to their Trek counterparts. Course, they're still cool.
About the credit transfer: the town of Ennis in Ireland tried giving everyone smart cards, and they only used 'em for parking meters. 'A good idea whose time has not yet come' was the official response.
This system... (Score:1)
*and* theres no cash limit (unlike smart cards with there $500 max) the VC used this system give this start up $3 million dolars....
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Making $$ on this? (Score:1)
We're all worried about Micros~1 & AOL taking over the world; who's watching the credit card people?
--Mid
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:1)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Wonderful... (Score:2)
Re:Making $$ on this? (Score:1)
annoynimity (Score:1)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Yeah, but (Score:2)
Kagenin, who not only plays too many RPGs, but dreams of a Cashless Society
A new kind of cat burglary (Score:2)
So let's see... lose the $3 in your wallet and spend a week waiting for all your credit cards to get replaced... or be drained of every penny you have?
I think digital money is a good thing.. but this is a slightly more sketchy idea.
Re:Security? (Score:1)
it's like a check. you can *write* a check for however much you want, but it isn't going to do you a lot of good.........
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:A new way to rob people (Score:1)
However.. note he got modded up to..
People might (like he did) take the joke out of context and think this is accually likely...
It's funny and a cool joke but not realistic..
I still have images of a a crook fidling with a knife and a plam..
"In todays news a would be mugger went to the hospital when he accadentally stabbed himself during a mugging attempt when he couldn't get the palm working"
It might be easyer if they just steal your palm...
Then you go on the internet have your plan voded and the next time the crook trys to use it you get your palm back
A sillyness note... some doom sayers think we'll have to have 666 stammped on our palms in order to do busness..
I just can't get the image out of my mind that "The beast" refers to larg Unix servers in stores and the palm with 666 is a palm pilot set world accessable [chmod 666]
The number of the Unix beast
Ok enough sillyness...
Worries (Score:2)
I'd really like to use this, it sounds nifty, now prove to me it works safely, and reliably.
-cpd
Re:Why don't banks consider encrypted transfers? (Score:1)
It wouldn't be impossible to break the SSL-but I sure wouldn't transfer too much, you *will* be detected (expecially if you try to transfer to *your* account, duh).
Penrif
Re:There is no money in star trek.. (Score:1)
Yeah you beat me to it, there is no money in
Star Trek, they're all a bunch of new-age hippies
who help each other just out of the goodness
of their hearts.
PSHAW!
like that would ever happen, there will always
be people like WILL~1.G8S and such around who
feel they are superior to us all by birth-right.
...dave
Re:vapor (Score:1)
e-gold (Score:1)
--
Re:Notice the investors... (Score:2)
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/pageview?cmd=inve
Anyways, for anyone else out there, the list of investors is Nokia, Deutsche Bank, Bill Melton (of CyberCash and VeriFone), and Martin Hellman.
Re:Wonderful... (Score:1)
However, if they don't have the software, they have to get it. It took credit cards quite a long time to get universal adoption.
So, if I don't have this software, but you want to buy a widget from me, you send me the text/data file. I don't have the software, though, so you "beam" it to my palm-pilot or e-mail it to me or whatever. That is binary, executable code that you are sending to me.
Re:Making $$ on this? (Score:1)
The credit card people are WAY ahead of those two. If you want to use an operating system, you can choose a non-Microsoft OS easily. If you want to go on the Internet, you can easily sidestep AOL. If you want to be able to spend money over the phone or Internet, you're pretty much dead in the water without a credit card. Checks are really being phased out, and even then not everyone (especially minors) has access to a checking account.
The credit card people have taken over the world of electronic commerce. There are dozens of operating systems and ISP's available worldwide to the general public, but there are only four major credit cards (Visa, Mastercard, Amex, and Discover -- although that last one's a stretch) that you can use.
Looks like electronic checks to me (Score:2)
Will this work? Probably yes. Electronic fund transfer is not going to go away. Will this work in this particular incarnation? It depends (on the company cluefulness, marketing, govt regulation, etc. etc.) Do I like the scheme? Not very much: there is no anonymity whatsoever.
Also consider the usefulness of the idea: how often do you write out paper checks and give them to other people (as opposed to, say, utility companies)? I do this maybe two-three times a year. For the rest of the time cash, credit card, and online bill payment are quite sufficient for me, thank you very much.
Kaa
Fun with IR (Score:2)
paperless world (Score:1)
In a sence your palm becomes a really expensive ATM card... only you can shoot a file off so someone else can pull some money out of your bank.
If your palm breaks you can just void your palm money.. It also means you can not run to the store and buy a new palm... have to run to the bank first... void palm money.. withdrawl money... get new palm.. get new palm money...
It also leaves some room for crackers to forge your palm codes and withdrawl more money from your bank than they should...
Re:What's the catch? (Score:1)
Plus the Wired News article says they expect over time to get people to load their account by check or bank debit, so PayPal wouldn't have to pay those nasty credit card interchange fees.
Give PayPal credit for recognizing the market opportunity in peer-to-peer payments. If enough buzz develops, somebody will take the next step and commercialize real digital cash.
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:1)
although i hate to think of nearly 40 more years of microsoft 'inovention'
Re: I want my DigiCash (Score:1)
To the best of my knowledge, all of the non-US DigiCash systems are still successfully up and running. Mark Twain was running a US trial for a long period of time but pulled out a year or so ago, which is why there is no current US presence.
However, you will be pleased to hear that the DigiCash IP was sold to a startup who appear very interested in making it a ubiquitous and successful product, and IMHO it sounds like they have the execution skill to back up the vision. Keep an eye out for it :)
Re:That system has been running in Canada for year (Score:1)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to insult Canadians, just their money. I just remember being in a Canadian arcade, and it was obviously much easier to get one of the arcade's own special cards than to come up with $2.75 in change per game.
($2.75? Remember to take not only the exchange rate into account, but the fact that everyone loves making tourists pay through the nose, especially if they have no clue how much their money is actually worth.)
Okay, okay, this is getting more and more off-topic by the second. I'll stop now.
--
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:1)
It is very obvious when more money has been spent on a card than has been loaded.
With Mondex, where real value flows from card to card, it would be possible to create value gradually and have an infinite source of cash...
Re:A new kind of cat burglary (Score:3)
Next, I believe you actually need to "load money" into these things. When you sync, you would tell it to load say $50 for "walking around" money. If you palm is stolen, this is the most you can lose. If someone beams money to you, you take your pilot home and transfer it back into your bank. There is no wireless connection to your bank or any way to get money to/from your bank except at the hot sync.
This is NOT like a "debit card" where the money is instantly transfered from your bank to theirs. It's more like a travellers check, where you withdraw the money and carry it around and then someone else deposits it later. They plan to make money off the float (between the time you withdraw the money and someone else deposits it, they will earn interest off of it).
Re:A new kind of cat burglary (Score:1)
what about the complaint about the PalmV and using it to steal the remote operation codes from cars so that you can open the doors just by intercepting the keycode... Can you do this w/this? Just intercept the IR beam and run like a purse-snatcher laughing all the way?
I am all for electronic little gadjets doing my work for me, but I feel bad enough typing my CC info into a web browswer for a transaction (and even worse when a computer company says, oh, send it to us in email, it is as safe as handing it to a waiter in a restaurant). Maybe I am old fashioned and maybe a bit paranoid, but I would carry my wallet any day over my Palm for money transaction... Plus, paper and coin and even plastic money transfers just as easy as this...
Re:Wonderful... (Score:1)
Of course, that also presents a problem because
one needs access to the Net to verify the digital
signature. Of course, one could store both the money and the software in encrypted form and then try to decrypt at home...
I think that sounds pretty clunky. Now, a smart-card reader for the Pilot... That might work.
mAx
Re:A new kind of cat burglary (Score:1)
Of course, I still don't want my money going down the toilet if my Palm III resets or gets lost or dies...
Re:Making $$ on this? (Score:1)
A fine suggestion, but utterly, utterly wrong. What you are proposing is illegal thanks to the little known and recently dug out and dusted off escheatment laws. It says that when property (tangiable or intangiable) has no rightful owner, like expired cash or phone credits on a card, the government will look after that property until the rightful owner presents himself.
So, if a company is planning on keeping the cash/credit on an expired/lost card, they are acting illegally.
Read up on escheatment and be very scared if your company operates in this way.
Re:Yes there is cuz the federation isn't the unive (Score:1)
Re:I'll stick with cash (Score:1)
Me too. And with cash, you don't have to worry about either sitting on or your PDA dying on you....
Re:I'll stick with cash (Score:1)
Funny, I've never had to show any ID when getting a refund from either Kmart or Wal-mart, and whoever said you had to use your real name on any of the forms? I've paid $1500 cash for a used car at a dealership without any problems whatsoever.
Re:That system has been running in Canada for year (Score:1)
The money sits in my account until I decide to move it to pay for a purchase. Therefore it collects (pitiful) interest. I don't have to change banks, I can make withdrawls from any bank (usually with an interbank fee however). And some bank machines indeed do give you the option of american cash. In fact, my card works on the Cirrus system of interbank transfers -- I can get cash in the states or wherever Cirrus machines exist.
Re:I'll use paper for now, thanks. (Score:1)
"PayPal financial transactions are encrypted using public-key cryptography to ensure maximum security for all beamed transactions between users and for all subsequent interactions with our secure server, which occur during synchronization of each handheld device. When you conduct a transaction on the PayPal web site, we encrypt all of your private information. That information is stored on a secure server housed in a secure data center. All transactions are conducted through our secure servers, which are protected behind state-of-the-art firewalls."
Re:What happens to patents when a corp goes bellyu (Score:1)
Of course, this could totally be off, as well.
Re:vaporware: the authoritative definiton (Score:1)
D'oh!
I should RTFM more often so that I know of what I speak...
--
- Sean
The danger is that something like this succeeds (Score:1)
The problem is that the availability of faux-ecash systems like this will only make it less likely that we ever get true electronic cash. Mondex, et al are all just "better credit cards" that avoid having to pass your credit card in the clear but don't do anything to preserve your privacy. Do you really want your credit card company to have a list of everyone you exchanged cash with and every store you shop at?
Re:What an amazingly bad idea (Score:1)
disappear into the ether. If you never sync
your PDA (or reinstall/wipe the memory/whatever
periodically), you can transfer all you want and
never pay anything..
Re:I'll use paper for now, thanks. (Score:1)
Re:There is no money in star trek.. (Score:1)
Maybe they have a "Gift Economy" and all their software and hardware designs are open Source so there no need for money!
(note for the humor impaired the above is inteded as a "joke")
"I didn't know you wore falsies -- false ears" -Brazil
The T was Better, IIRC (Score:1)
but their universal transit card was *way* better.
Because of the zoned fares, my Dad had a card that was worth, say, $2.50 for the Commuter Rail trains.
You could then use the same card on the T for subway/tram travel, and it had the Magnetic Stripe for quick access.
The best part: unlike here in fscking Toronto, you didn't need picture ID to use the damn thing!
So I could use it on weekends when my Dad wasn't working. Ideal!
Someone from Beantown may want to correct my statements:
I never had to buy one, so I don't know about cost. But it seemed to work great!
Pope
Re:Security Concerns... (Score:1)
I'm very skeptical of this scheme. First, they have a stupid name. "PayPal"? Uggh. Sounds like a toy cash register made by Mattel.
Not to mention the enormous difficulty of getting this thing to spread. I don't have a Palm or WinCE device (I prefer EPOC, thanks), so if someone wanted to "beam" me the ten bucks I lent them for lunch, they would have to first explain the scheme, quell my fears about its safety, and then convince me to download the software (most likely Windows and Mac only), give this company my private financial information, and then collect my ten dollars. Yeah, ummm... There's an ATM a block away. Let's go get my money.
Star Trek's Money System (Score:1)
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:1)
Every century a collection of zelots from various religions start getting their mortal affairs in order, and (in some cases) forcing others to do the same. The problem now adays is that some utter psycho could come up with a "millenium bug" that WOULD end the world (at least as far as humans are concerned).
I'm more concerned about people who think the world will end (and try to fulfil some nut-job prophecy), than I am in a couple zeros. Even (scary) three of them.
Re:Encryption (Score:1)
---
Security Notice
PayPal(TM) financial transactions are encrypted using public-key cryptography to ensure maximum security for all beamed transactions between users and for all subsequent interactions with our secure server, which occur during synchronization of each handheld device.
When you conduct a transaction on the PayPal(TM) web site, we encrypt all of your private information. That information is stored on a secure server housed in a secure data center. All transactions are conducted through our secure servers, which are protected behind state-of-the-art firewalls.
---
No indication of what flavor or key strength their crypto is, though.
Re:A new way to rob people (Score:1)
Didn't you notice the rating comment? aka: 3: Funny??
That's why it was rated up... not because of anything else.
--
- Sean
Mondex (Score:1)
Why don't banks consider encrypted transfers? (Score:2)
Re:I'll use paper for now, thanks. (Score:1)
Heh... OTOH, this could be good. Let's say someone big... big and important... has just received a nice large - ummm - payment, and Windows crashes...
Ok, so I'm sure there are a few holes in that scenario, but it's a nice thought
--
- Sean
Re:Star Trek's Money System (Score:1)
An open letter to Confinity (Score:1)
Are you going to publish the protocol used to communicate with your servers, and between handheld devices?
I own a Palm Pilot, but I use Linux, and I'm worried about my ability to use your service.
I'm also concerned about the security of any non-public protocol. Long experience in the cryptography community has proven that any algorithm that isn't public and survived teams of people trying to crack it isn't secure. I don't care if you use a proven algorithm like RSA. How do you use it? Where are the private keys stored? What data is on the wire? Is any data that may potentially damage security transmitted? I don't care what your answers are. I want other people's answers.
I'm looked at as a technology advisor by a lot of my friends. I will advise them all to not use your service due to the problems I outlined above unless you publish your protocol for peer review.
Re:What an amazingly bad idea (Score:1)
I can't let you do that, Dave... (Score:1)
What an amazingly bad analysis (Score:2)
The neat thing about this system is that it is viral; the enabling software can spread from Palm to Palm at the speed of gossip. I don't see anything that prevents the same scheme from being used to foster an anonymous e-Cash system in the future, and once Confinity's system is widespread enough for people to start getting annoyed with its lack of privacy, the stage is set for another viral system to replace it overnight. Getting people used to exchanging money with hand-helds is the big battle, selling them on a private system that's just as easy to use is child's play by comparison.
Re:A new way to rob people (Score:2)
If one reads the article one would see that the transactions are neither anonymous nor instantaneous. Two qualities which are highly desirable to those interested in performing a successful mugging.
Re:The danger is that something like this succeeds (Score:1)
If you offered me software that implemented true crypto-cash, I wouldn't have to trust an intermediary bank -- but I would have to trust that the software implemented a secure crypto-cash protocol in a correct way. Even if I had the source code in front of me, I couldn't verify that myself, so I'd have to trust some experts in the field to verify the program's reliability for me.
Furthermore, the average palmtop owners don't have a clue about who to trust on crypto issues, but they do trust the name "Merrill Lynch". So a pseudo-ecash system backed by Merrill Lynch is likely to go farther in the marketplace than a true ecash system backed by, say, Bruce Schneier [counterpane.com].
Remember, worse is better [jwz.org].
That system has been running in Canada for years! (Score:3)
That sort of system has been in place all across Canada for several years now (like about 7 or 8). I's called Interac.
The only thing you mentioned that we don't have are the little readers.
Every single bank and credit union in Canada (there are 5 big banks, a handful of small ones, and a zillion credit unions) is in on the Interac system.
It's basically an ATM (bank) card that can be used for purchasing. Pretty much any store in Canada, from McDonalds to the international airports, to little mom-and-pop corner store, to the big department stores (Sears, etc) accept them.
You can pay for your purchases directly with the card; no signing anything, all you have to do is input a single 4-number PIN. The money, if available, gets debited directly and instantly from your account.
A couple bank machines also offer the option of transferring money directly to someone else's Interac account, similar to what this Confinity thing does (except that you can't carry it with you).
Sure, the bank knows where you made the purchase, when and how much, but that's it. They don't know
Like I said, it's been in place here since the early 90's, and is immensely popular. I don't have the exact figures on-hand but something like 30%-40% of all purchases nationwide last year were made over Interac, and it's growing by 10% plus per year.
Since every single banking institution in the country is involved, you don't have to be a customer of any one particular bank or have a special ATM card or anything. Any old one will do.
And, there are really only a very few (probably under 5%) stores/restaurants/whatever that don't take it. Even the government takes it for pretty much anything. I think taxes (Income taxes, etc) are the only things they don't accept it for... and there are plans underway to change that.
It's a great system -- to be honest, I've always wondered why on earth they couldn't adopt something similar (or even the same system, to make things easy) in the USA.
--
- Sean
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:1)
Re:Making $$ on this? (Score:1)
Close, but not quite...... (Score:1)
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:1)
Re:What an amazingly bad idea (Score:1)
just a thought.
Re:vapor (Score:1)
Just because something is not available yet (ie: before they said it would be) does not mean that it's vapourware. If it never becomes available, then it is vapourware.
Until they say they're abandoning it, or until the release date hits without them saying/releasing anything, it's simply "under development".
I mean, by your argument, Linux 2.4 is vapourware. Huh??? No, it's not! It's just not finished yet.
--
- Sean
Re:I'll use paper for now, thanks. (Score:1)
Mo Money!
- da Lawn
Re: What an amazingly bad idea - Why? (Score:1)
1) Federal law limits your personal liability in credit card matters to $50 (long distance phone calls, stamps, etc). This means that since the actual payment part involves a credit card company...if for some reason the system is hacked and someone tries to fake a $5000 transfer, you just tell your card company to dispute the charge and that's that. Now of course, if you were dumb enough to use your fancy new CHECK card, then you will be fighting to get money you already PAID back (versus getting the right not to pay) so let's not do that, hmmm?
2) It's called Pay_PAL_ and I think this is just to remind people that initially this system will be used to settle minor debts and cash transfers between FRIENDS. Like when the bo-bos in desktop support all decide they want to eat somewhere nice for lunch but one of them is short on cash. Someone else pays for that person and instead of an IOU on a Post-It note...they get a digital version that is less likely to be forgotten or misplaced.
3) For crying out loud...have the people whining about resets even HEARD of FlashPro? If you put your PayPal database in FlashROM instead of RAM then even a hard-rest is not going to touch it. Do this and the only way the "payment to be" will be vulerable is if your PalmPilot breaks or you lose it. If this is the case, the $5 someone transferred from lunch is not going to be your biggest concern. And if it is, you can always ask the person to resend since the data got lost and thus never got charged. Do you really think Confinity would have lost their venture capital funding if the CEO dropped his Palm under a bus? No. Of course he would have gone back to the Nokia rep and asked for a resend. Now if you are selling your car or house to stangers on the street, then loss of Palm might be an issue, but otherwise...get real. =]
4) Hacks and trojans are possibly a future concern but don't forget I can always do an Info command to review the maker, version, and size information if I'm that paranoid (not like it can't be faked but at least it gets rid of the casual CodeWarrior kiddie). But getting back to point #2 I'm not going to let any shmuck on the street beam an application to my Palm, let alone one that involves payment. You either trust your friends that this is legit, or you tell them to put cash on the barrelhead.
Maybe someday when strangers on the street are trying to PayPal each other will these security issues be a concern. As it stands right now, this is just a simple, automated IOU system that gives any JoeShmoe the ability to accept credit card payment (via proxy) from someone they already know and trust. Good for them. I'll use it and hide behind Citibank if it doesn't work the way it was supposed to.
Besides...I'm more concerned about looking my contact list than any PayPal data. The contact list is priceless, PayPal is "only money".
JoeShmoe
~~~~~
The best
Re:Do we need it? (Score:1)
I'm no expert, but shouldn't it be possible to make a semi-anonymous service by reverse engineering thier encryption protocols?
Do this - take the digital check, intended to be beemed to someone who doesn't have an account. Instead of signing up for the service, and thus revealing who you are, simply use that check to pay someone else for an anonymous service or product. Voila'!
Of course, how viable this scenario is depends on how long the expiration period is on the check. I would think that it'd be at least thirty days or so, to allow for the lazy person with no immediate money concerns. And if we can hack the protocoll, we could make a version that would post-date the check for greater circulation time.
The main drawback of taking this approach is that you couldn't make change - the digital check is a non-changable entity. Thus you wouldn't be able to take a check for $100 and make two payments of $50 off of it. BUT!!! It should be fairly simple to request several digital checks from your friend/trading partner instead of one massive one.
How long will it take us to reverse engineer the algorythms and re-create the software as an open source project? Or will they try to increase confidence in their project by releasing it as open source, or at least open spec? Is it just me, or does this seem like the obvious thing to do for your typical paranoid? Is this just a pipe dream, or could this happen?
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:1)
Big Problem if... (Score:2)
while making it sound like this thing should be roling out next week some time.
And I thought financial ruin was close enough for all of us with simple credit cards and on-line brokers/auction houses/stores!
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:2)
A new way to rob people (Score:3)
Extract From Galactic Encyclopedia, May 2010.
Re:Another spurious Star Trek reference (Score:3)
Doesn't anybody READ the articles before posting? (Score:2)
-Undoubtedly the infrared xmission is encrypted!
-The data sent to Confinty is probably encrypted and digitally signed to avoid tampering.
-You probably will not be able to fake a transaction. My understanding of the article is that the money will be held in escrow until both parties confirm the transaction via sync'ing. (Although this would open up another possible problem).
In any case, why not take a RTFM-approach before posting flippant theories.
What an amazingly bad idea (Score:2)
You setup your Palm with the software.
You setup an account with Confinity (free-ish).
You can now take credit card payments with the software, OR beamed payments from other users.
When you "sync" the Palm with Confinity, the data is sent to them, and they actually charge the credit cards, and send the money to you or your account with them, whichever.
Bad idea becauses there's at least three points at which to break in and subvert the system.
-On the IR level, such as copying someone's transaction from a distance.
-At the software level, such as getting a legit payment, then hacking the software on the Palm to up the amount by a large number.
-At the return the data to Confinity, such as sending them records of transactions that never actually occured in the first place.
Plus probably more. Admittedly, all these three can be fixed with the right kinds of encryption, but I doubt they worried about that too much when writing the software.
Just don't use this for anything important for about a year or two, giving them time to work out the bugs.. Probably vaporware anyway..
Re:There is no money in star trek.. (Score:2)
Re:Making $$ on this? (Score:2)
Your money in your account, which they are holding.
It's just like a bank. They use your money to make more money, they they keep the profit. Simple. Normally banks pay you interest (Savings accounts), but they dont have to, because they're providing you a service. Could be very profitable for them, if they get enough users, and don't go belly up inside of 6 months, which is my prediction.
Re:What's the catch? (Score:2)
It helps to think of them as a bank. They hold your money, and let you spend it. If someone transfers money to you, it goes into that account which you can then spend.
A bank spends your money to make more money. That's how banks survive, other than bank fees. For some savings accounts, you pay nothing, but earn interest on the money in that account. The reason for this is that they use your money to make more money than the interest they pay you.
I wouldn't be surprised to discover that this is actually a bank somewhere, and not just an internet company.
Something is fishy about this (Score:2)
1) As someone has already mentioned, what are they getting out of this?
I can only think of a few ways to make money on this, but none of them seem overly viable.
2) How is the transaction accounted?
Obviously, they must use both payee-dependence and payer-dependence. If only payee, the payee could get as much as they want. If only payer, the payer could --- oops --- reset --- his pilot. So, the two must agree. Further, the limit of accountability must be either based on the pre-deposited funds or some credit financing scheme as above.
If they do it this way, it seems fairly well accountable, from three axes. Of course, they'll need encryption and authentication and all of that, but that looks fairly sound otherwise... if they do it this way...
That, of couse, is the final concern:
They don't tell us, the future customers, their methods, accountability, and financial interests.
Notice the investors... (Score:2)
Re:Do we need it? (Score:2)
And then this slashdot post.
As far as I know, DigiCash (wasn't there an "e-cash" that used Chaum's system?), was the only system that allowed anonymous payments. This is what I found most useful. I was pretty distressed when I heard that DigiCash went under.
I don't think this product is viable. From the glossy web pages, I found nothing about privacy, real encryption, or anything more beneficial over the credit card number over SSL payment.
Oh, sure, I can give some "money" to my buddy with a Palm (any word on an HP48 port?), but is that really useful?
I wanted DigiCash. Are there products that allow for truly anonymous transactions?
This Looks Cool and Safe (Score:2)
According to this article, you beam your account number across Palms, and when the user synchs, your account is billed n dollars. So if you do a hard reset on your Palm, you just have to re-enter your account information. You don't "lose" any money.
My first impression when I saw this was "Wow, how long before someone writes an IR sniffer?" Luckily, they seem clueful. Dan Boneh and Martin Hellman (as in Diffie-Hellman encryption) both helped develop the software, so I imagine its reasonably secure. Plus, they use the high-test encryption, opting for security over exportability. IMHO more companies need to take this attitude. Then again, the government needs to get a clue and so do most software houses (hint, XORing passwords is NOT secure!).
I'll probably wait a little while for them to get the bugs out of a nationwide rollout, but I can't wait to be able to buy a jolt with my Palm III!