Dell PCs with Ubuntu Are A Little Less Expensive 388
Chandon Seldon writes "Contrary to many earlier reports, it turns out that Dell's prices for its Ubuntu PCs are cheaper than similar Windows Vista PCs for all three Models. Ars Technica reports: 'So it turns out that not including Windows saves the consumer $50 from the regular list price. This amount is not too far off from what a large OEM like Dell would pay for a volume discount for Windows Vista Home Basic (the regular OEM price is about $95). Many value PC sellers try to make up for the cost of a Windows license by bundling demo and trial versions of software such as AOL (affectionately known as "crapware"), for which they receive money from software companies looking to increase their distribution levels. Dell is no exception to this practice, although on their web site it allows customers to select the option of not including various applications.' For direct comparisons, Nat Tuck of Umass-Lowell has put together a simple page showing prices for Ubuntu and Windows-based PCs."
Well, people, time to cough up the dough (Score:5, Insightful)
What you pay for ... (Score:5, Insightful)
50$ is just the start (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Who... fscking... cares (Score:3, Insightful)
That's my take on it anyway.
Re:This is well and good but.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Anyway (Score:5, Insightful)
Those who are not so technically minded and buy the thing candidly thinking that they will come home and install World of Warcraft or Photoshop and use iTunes will be having a hard time with this...
So really, why don't pay, say 10 USD more to get Windows and THEN if you like to be cool, get the Linuzz pain and install it?
I must say that I'm really skeptic about this whole thing.... but who knows... After all we all know that THIS is the year of Linuzzz on the desktop.
Re:Who... fscking... cares (Score:4, Insightful)
"Who fsking cares" is exactly the right question. My parents, grandparents, and many of my peers who know very little about computers don't care what operating system they are using on a computer. To them, a computer is a computer just the same, regardless of the operating system. The bottom line for them is the costs involved. How reliable is the computer? How long will it be until another computer must be purchased? How much up-front cost is required for the initial purchase?
To my mother, who I am proud to say has been using Linux since Ubuntu 6.06 was released, Linux seems more reliable. She still clicks on those goofy advertisement images that look like they have real buttons, but guess what - her machine doesn't need to be reformatted within a week after that takes place! So in her eyes, the machine is more reliable.
To my grandmother, she only wants to be able to talk to family via email. Why does she need to spend any more than the bare minimum? Will this machine be more likely to be usable until she is no longer physically capable of using a computer? That is more likely to be true with Linux than Windows while keeping the OS up-to-date.
And why not take this a little further... What if I'm a small company in need of some "thin client" computers. Why should I pay even a little extra for an operating system on 20 computers, when I can get it for free and completely avoid those fees (which would be a significant price difference, no doubt).
(Though this does not apply to the dell desktops directly, these could be used for this purpose...) John/Jane Doe wants to start a new business where a web-based application with a database is required. Why should he/she need to pay for a Windows server environment and Microsoft SQL Server licenses? The benefit here is clearly that a good deal of additional money can be focused on the business requirements, and not initial licensing costs.
Of course, I could present many more real-life examples I'm aware of... While that may not be a majority of the market, it is a solid start to appeal to these constituent groups, and it could to be quite lucrative long-term. Your needs are one thing, but I'm merely suggestion not being egocentric and suggesting we think of others' needs instead. Doing this will clearly benefit the entire community long-term.
Re:Anyway (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This is well and good but.. (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Who... fscking... cares (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, if for no other reason, it's interesting because the ol' "Microsoft Tax" canard is one of those foundation building blocks of MS hatred. How many times have you read, right here, that even if a major direct-to-consumer dealer/manufacturer WERE to ship boxes with Linux onboard, that Teh Evil Micro$oft would still be making sure that machine sold for MORE than an OEM-Windows-equipped box would. This is interesting because it lets some of the hot air out of that particular troll.
Re:No 3D in laptops. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:This is well and good but.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can you geeks make up your minds? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Can you geeks make up your minds? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well, people, time to cough up the dough (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:DELL is selling Linux! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No modem, no driver problem (Score:3, Insightful)
The whole point is guaranteed compatibility (i.e. "hassle free"). We want Dell to use their might to improve the driver situation for Linux.
BTW, I totally understand that in the amazingly short time-frame Dell launched this, it's not realistic to expect that they could solve a problem that the Linux community has been just living with for years. Kudos to Dell for what they've accomplished so far.
But I still hope they find a sane way to offer a compatible modem.
Re:50$ is just the start (Score:4, Insightful)
It is unfair to include the cost of office when comparing the cost of windows vs linux.
Re:Well, people, time to cough up the dough (Score:5, Insightful)
A) Install KDE, or XFCE or IceWM or Enlightenment or whatever or DE/WM you want or
B) Install whichever entire distro you want.
Personally, I like Gnome, after switching to KDE and back a few times... but I know not everyone does, so to each his own. But Gnome is a great place for people who are new to Linux to start. And if you don't like it, this is Free software, on pretty standard PC hardware, which means you can replace it without losing any real value (with Windows if you want to).
Two of the major good things about this product is that a) a major PC company is making Linux available pre-installed for everyone, and b) all the hardware in those machines is guaranteed to work under Linux. Not always with open source drivers, but it will be able to be Linux-compatible. Therefore, anyone who doesn't like the default configuration can install whatever Linux flavor they want, or any other x86 OS, or they can change the default Desktop Environment.
Can we please have people stop complaining because Dell isn't offering a default setup in exactly the l33t configuration you would have set it up on your own?
It's good that the Ubuntu systems are cheaper... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, it bugs me that none of the Ubuntu systems have AMD processors! Most of us who run Linux want 64-bit these days, since 64-bit "just works" under Linux, and gives a pretty good performance boost. And among Intel Desktop processors, only the Core 2 Duo support 64-bit, while *ALL* the AMD processors now support 64-bit, from the lowly Sempron on up.
Anyone know if Dell will offer an AMD system with Ubuntu?
Re:Comparisons? (Score:3, Insightful)
The whole Vista interface was sluggish, especially in Media Center. Now, Ubuntu, on the other hand, was great. And I could install the Myth Frontend to watch TV I had recorded on my backend at home. It all works great, and is very responsive.
Really this argument is probably somewhat offtopic, because I'm sure most currently selling PCs will handle Vista just fine, and Dell isn't selling 3 year old PCs. But as far older hardware goes, you really don't need to worry as much about system resources as much with Ubuntu as with Vista... and when you consider options like XFCE, the requirements go down even further.
Re:Piracy (Score:1, Insightful)
Besides, it'll boost the ubuntu sales, MS doesn't get the cash for the sale, and Dell definitely does not have to give them Windows support.
In any case, it's illegal to use a pirated copy of MS software. Bad Karma.
Re:It's good that the Ubuntu systems are cheaper.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, I made the choice that is most personally advantageous to me. I suspect this is a big reason why desktops bundled with Linux haven't caught on: small companies that try and sell Linux-based desktops don't have the same purchasing power and economies of scale as behemoths like Dell and HP which bundle their systems with Windows. So us Linux geeks buy the systems with Windows bundled and just discard it. We save money, but we pay Microsoft as well, so we're not saving as much money as we could in theory.
I think this is a pretty bold and impressive move by Dell... I just hope that they extend it across their entire product line. If the Customization options for every Dell system included a choice like, "Operating System: Ubuntu Linux (subtract $50/$100 from price)", you'd bet there'd soon be a *lot* more people running Ubuntu. Maybe a rough adjustment for those users and for tech support at first, but I believe the Linux community would come out far ahead in adoption in perception in a short amount of time.
Re:Im seeing a lot made of the price difference (Score:1, Insightful)
Per your narrative, they did not consider Linux the first time. Also, per your narrative, someone that knows they wants Windows but doesn't know about Ubuntu may not be the target market. Perhaps a complete noob would be better. Regardless, Dell will have similar and more insurmountable problems with various flavors of Windows to say nothing of the growing limitations of DRM. At least they can solve Ubuntu problems over the phone. You can't upgrade a Windows install so easily nor can you circumvent its limitations legally (Dell can't, at least).
Re:Well, people, time to cough up the dough (Score:2, Insightful)
While the Dell/Ubuntu deal is definitely a major victory in the name of “Linux” and Open Source [fsf.org], the inclusion of proprietary drivers will still prevent many people who value freedom [fsf.org]--including me--from purchasing one of these machines. I run gNewSense [gnewsense.org], which is a distribution of GNU+Linux based on Ubuntu, minus the proprietary components (drivers, firmware, etc.) When I can purchase a machine that doesn't force me to use proprietary software in order to use any piece of its hardware, then I'll make a purchase. Until then, as some may say, “Close, but no cigar.”
From yesterday's direct2dell blog post [direct2dell.com] on the topic:
My bone of contention comes from several decisions Dell has made:
On the bright side, however, Dell did state the following directly after explaining the three “categories” of drivers (emphasis mine):
FYI: Ubuntu Promo works better in IE (Score:5, Insightful)
If you look at the page source you'll see they have a javascript array of urls, one of which always includes the Ubuntu promo link/image. These arrays are all sent to their 'montage' function which is supposed to cycle through the different promos (open the dell home page in IE and you'll see the desired function in action).
In Firefox 1.5.x for whatever reason (they have too many errors for me to even bother trying to track it down) the page will load the first random image which could possibly be the Ubuntu one. This is why you have to usually reload the page to get it. However, if you have NoScript enabled (or javascript disabled, take your pick) you will never see the Ubuntu promo as you will always get the default image.
So Dell did put an advertisement for Linux on their front page, and if they purposefully targeted anyone it was IE users, the people least likely to be informed about Linux.
Re:It's good that the Ubuntu systems are cheaper.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not really a troll (Score:2, Insightful)
LOL. Amazing! Not only have you claimed that I "manufactured that interpretation" but you claim to understand my motivation for the alleged conduct!
No, I am not defensive at all. My conclusion that your comment was unnecessarily insulting comes from the fact that you engaged in name calling and cutting remarks.
Or perhaps you can explain how labeling Open Source advocates as "hippy-types" and saying that they are "growing up" and suggesting that they don't have real jobs is not being insulting?
Although your intent may have been to make the points you made in your last post to me the delivery of the original post was insulting. Maybe you didn't realize?
Re:This is well and good but.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Not every computer user is a gamer. In fact, gamers are in the minority.
It's true that computer gaming is one of the few tasks for which Windows is obviously more appropriate than Ubuntu, but that's not enough reason to say that Ubuntu is inappropriate for most people. Ubuntu even works pretty well for the occasional gamer - UT2004 online is a lot of fun.
Re:Next 6 mo prediction for dell call center (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Hey, my windows office that I copied from my buddy doesn't install!
You copied it from your buddy? Must be that DRM copy protection.
Have you ever seen shockwave work anywhere? Have you seen Homestarrunner.com?
It's already installed, but it's called "Rythmbox Music Player" in the menu for some reason.
GIMP is a more advanced version of Photoshop. Don't you hate it how new versions of software change things around?