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Journal Cliff's Journal: Oh, Dear -- The Things You Can Find in the Bible... 20

Journal by Cliff
Controversial issues, aside, I was pointed to this article, today and just thought I'd share this bit of zen:

...Is this true? Are there actual verses decrying gay marriage? Are they anything like those other Biblical verses, about the rules and regulations surrounding marriage that are making the rounds on the Net right now? Real verses. Actual verses. Verses o' sanctimonious fun. Have you seen them?

Like this: "Marriage shall not impede a man's right to take multiple concubines in addition to his wife or wives." (II Sam 5:13; I Kings 11:3; II Chron 11:21).

Or maybe: "A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be stoned to death." (Deut 22:13-21) Isn't that cute? Isn't quoting Bible verse fun? Ask your local pastor about that one. ...

Thank God (pun, intended), for the New Testament.

As the differences between New and Old Testament show, things change, ust like things are changing now. Hopefully these changes, in whatever form they finally settle into, are for the better.

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Oh, Dear -- The Things You Can Find in the Bible... More

Oh, Dear -- The Things You Can Find in the Bible...

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  • Leviticus 18:22 [skepticsan...dbible.com]
    • Just a quick note- that site is interesting but they obviously lack a fundamental grasp of what some of those verses mean. I was looking at the notes to the right of the text and some of them are way off. They ask if God condones child sacrafice when the meaning of the verse is a strict prohibition on such acts (common with some peoples at the time) It says another verse bans looking at a naked woman when she has her period - when the verse says nothing of the sort- it bans intercourse with a women in th
      • Those questions following the verses are links where they show the contradictions within the bible. I did not find the specific quote, you were taking umbrage against, but this [skepticsan...dbible.com] is an example.

        They aren't commenting from preexisting assumptions, they are asking genuine questions about it. After all, the absolute truth cannot be self-contradictory.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Most people who are arguing against "a Constitutional amendment" are arguing against a specific text that has no hope of being passed by Congress. If an amendment passes, it's likely it would assert the right of the states to accept or refuse gay marriage.

      Further, what's wrong with restricting social change? I personally think it restricts civil change more than social change, but so what? A ban on slavery restricts social change: I think it is a good restriction. It's like when people bemoan "discrimi
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • It could also likely be interpreted that it will not allow states to recognise gay marriage.

          The text of the amendment itself says ...

          You misunderstand me. I am saying it is likely no such amendment would pass. I am saying the current amendment, which is indeed ambiguous on that point, will not pass. It has absolutely no chance, mostly because of the amibguity you mention, but also because most people do not want the power of a state to decide for itself to be taken away.

          DOMA passed only because it
          • Comment removed based on user account deletion
            • And what's wrong with the word "choice" or "choose" instead of "discriminate"?

              Discriminate is a more specific word, implying exclusion of options.

              However, you also say "Discrimination" has no positive or negative meaning. Semantically, you're wrong here. Literally, you are right.

              I think you mean connotatively and denotatively. And the problem is that what you may think is connotated may not be what I think is connotated, and people abuse connotations and defend them with denotations.

              However, mentio
              • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                • Failing? And if one of us wins, then we get, what, a million dollars? A trip to the moon? I wasn't aware this was a contest.

                  I meant you are failing to understand my point, as I had already stated.

                  ("Discriminate" is) More specific than choose?

                  Yes, of course, for the reason I noted and you quoted: it implies exclusion of options, whereas "choose" does not.

                  "1 : to make a selection", which sounds like excluding options to me

                  I don't know why it would. No such thing is stated or inferred. "I chose the
                  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                    • That's what I meant by clarifying.

                      I did not add anything that was not obvious. If I think a ban on abortion is positive, I necessarily think abortion is bad. This is clear to even a casual observer.

                      I didn't see how it could be a good thing

                      That's irrelevant; you only need to be able to imagine that someone else could.

                      Declaring your opinion with no support doesn't mean that it is, in fact, a restrtiction that would be good.

                      It's an opinion. There is no such thing as "in fact" for such things.

                      Yes
                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                    • You called me ignorant, before I called you any names. Your feigned offense is uninteresting.

                      I have tried to engage in the discusson and be polite.

                      You said something and then twice llied to me and said you didn't say it, and when I proved to you that you did in fact say it, you refused to address it or apologize. I don't call that polite; I call it the opposite.
                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
                    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
              • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I like that columnist and I wish to subscribe to his newsletter...hey I can [sfgate.com]!
  • The old testament is chock full of laws against homosexuality.

    But, I won't judge a person either way. I'm one of those 'the government should only have unions, and marriage should be restricted to the church.'

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