Journal Mekkis's Journal: Those Damned Jesus People... 15
Okay, that tears it.
I have to vent about those fucking Jesus People, AKA "Christers". I've absolutely had it up to here with them.
Oh, I'm sure the evangelical community will take my expression of vehemence as yet another excuse to cry "oppression!" because there's nothing so righteous as a vicitmized Christian. *spits* The lengths these people go to in order to claim victimhood -- it truly makes me feel like vomiting.
"What's the reason for this rant?" you ask, twisting your hat in your hands and nervously edging away from the tall, hairy fellow with a maniacal glint in his eye and a dollop of foam beginning to form at each corner of his mouth. "Whatever got you so worked up?"
Oh, just about the constant hectoring I got from them working next door to one of those stripmall "ministries", to begin with... But that's a long story, too long for me to tell here. Suffice to say I am infuriated with their constant attempts to re-form the United States into a specifically Christian environment, one where non-Christians are forced to live as if they *are* Christians and are barely tolerated until they convert. Which they eventually will given the constant pressure they'll be under from everyone and everything they encounter.
Let's take the latest outrage, the attempt to ban the teaching of evolution theory in public school biology classes. Ban, you say? "I thought it was just Intelligent Design they wanted taught as a competing theory!" The science classroom is no place for religion. The place for creationism is in the church. If every competing religion's creation myth had to be taught alongside genetic science and evolution theory, there would be no time to discuss coursework! This is beside the fact that the first thing anyone learns in any given science class is that theories are fallible; one must continally test theories as one works-- hence evolution is not a religion as many claim, it is a theory.
On "All Things Considered" I heard one youth pastor inculcating his 'flock', attempting to disprove the idea of evolution by asking if anyone's ever seen a 'CatDog' -- and using that as an excuse to rail about how that the fact that animals don't instantly change for the observer disproves evolution. I ask that man to buy a jar of fruitflies and then track the iterations of their breeding. Keep one in a closet and the other in a lit room. He'll notice that the future generations of fruitflies kept in the closet will have lost the powers of sight within a few weeks.
But then again, facts have never played much part in sermons.
I suppose the thing that really gets under my skin is the absolute lack of respect for other ideologies. There's a very slim tolerance, to be sure, tolerance in the sense they don't firebomb people who don't subscribe to their ideology. But let's take the whole gay marriage issue. I got into a debate with a Christer once about this. His whole reason for lobbying against gay marriage was that marriage was "a contract with God" and homosexuality was "against God". Well, technically, eating pork, shellfish and cheeseburgers is against God too but apparently that's not AS against God as being a homosexual. I digress however. The point I made to him was that marriage, in a legal sense, is nothing more than a legal contract, an binding and exclusive incorporation of two individual citizens. If the Constitution and Bill of Rights state that all citizens are equal under the law and cannot be discriminated against according to gender, race, religion or what-have-you, then specifying that said contract can only exist between citizens of differing genders goes against the Constitution - e.g., is *UNCONSTITUTIONAL*. He said that he couldn't support anything that went against his god. I suggested that he may not worship Allah, Vishnu or Zoroaster, but I don't hear him attempting to deny marriage to these followers of supposedly false religions. He said they were still enjoining a contract with their Gods. "What about Atheists?" I asked. "They're allowed to get married and they don't believe in any God." The conversation just sort of... stopped at that point and he walked out of the room. I didn't take much to tell he was pissed off and didn't want to talk about it anymore.
These sort of conversations drive me totally batty. Whenever I seem to be making a point against which a Christer can't form an argument, they shut down and walk away rather than consider the option that their opinion may be flawed. Like the above guy: instead of grudgingly agreeing that yes, believe it or not, "faggots" have human rights too, he shut down and refused to talk about it further.
He has a right to disagree-- on religious or any other principles-- with a person's homosexual "lifestyle". This is America, people have the right to disagree on principle with a lot of things. I disagree on principle with charging interest - and supposedly, so does the Christian Bible -- but that doesn't stop institutions claiming "Christian lending principles" from charging interest either. I guess they subscribe more to the part of the Bible that states "God helps those who help themselves". But disagreeing on principle, regardless of the solidity of your religious and/or philisophical convictions does not give you the right to interfere with another person's Constitutional rights.
Now that I think of it, here's a quandary to stump the Jesus People. Their arguments go something like this: it was God's Will that the United States became the "Greatest Nation on Earth" and that God influences Constitution through His will. If the Constitution deems that all citizens are equal and cannot legally be subject to any sort of discrimination, does that mean God made a mistake?
I'm getting a bit cranky here, I know. But let's take another instance of something that drives me batshit. Turns out that the majority of military chaplains are Evangelical Christians -- 60% of all chaplains by last count. Well, those chaplains are pissed off that the military has a ban on proselytizing and are suing the military for discrimination. Once again the oppressed Christian bit. Real cute. Personally, I can imagine nothing more aggravating than having to deal with someone-- usually a superior officer in the case of most chaplains-- following me around a combat zone and attempting to convert me. Or trying to convert me while I vent during a counseling session. Yeah, real morale builder there. Not that I've ever been in the military mind you, but hey, Jews are asked to fight on the Sabbath -- Muslims must place the call of duty above and beyond the sacrosanct call to prayer... But Evangelicals are being oppresed by being asked to put aside their religious prejudices in order to minister to the soliders equally? Fuckin' A.
That's all for now, but as this a pet peeve of mine I'm sure it'll come up again. It's like an acute case of vomiting - something's always coming up.
--Mekkis, the Eyeconoclast--
I have to vent about those fucking Jesus People, AKA "Christers". I've absolutely had it up to here with them.
Oh, I'm sure the evangelical community will take my expression of vehemence as yet another excuse to cry "oppression!" because there's nothing so righteous as a vicitmized Christian. *spits* The lengths these people go to in order to claim victimhood -- it truly makes me feel like vomiting.
"What's the reason for this rant?" you ask, twisting your hat in your hands and nervously edging away from the tall, hairy fellow with a maniacal glint in his eye and a dollop of foam beginning to form at each corner of his mouth. "Whatever got you so worked up?"
Oh, just about the constant hectoring I got from them working next door to one of those stripmall "ministries", to begin with... But that's a long story, too long for me to tell here. Suffice to say I am infuriated with their constant attempts to re-form the United States into a specifically Christian environment, one where non-Christians are forced to live as if they *are* Christians and are barely tolerated until they convert. Which they eventually will given the constant pressure they'll be under from everyone and everything they encounter.
Let's take the latest outrage, the attempt to ban the teaching of evolution theory in public school biology classes. Ban, you say? "I thought it was just Intelligent Design they wanted taught as a competing theory!" The science classroom is no place for religion. The place for creationism is in the church. If every competing religion's creation myth had to be taught alongside genetic science and evolution theory, there would be no time to discuss coursework! This is beside the fact that the first thing anyone learns in any given science class is that theories are fallible; one must continally test theories as one works-- hence evolution is not a religion as many claim, it is a theory.
On "All Things Considered" I heard one youth pastor inculcating his 'flock', attempting to disprove the idea of evolution by asking if anyone's ever seen a 'CatDog' -- and using that as an excuse to rail about how that the fact that animals don't instantly change for the observer disproves evolution. I ask that man to buy a jar of fruitflies and then track the iterations of their breeding. Keep one in a closet and the other in a lit room. He'll notice that the future generations of fruitflies kept in the closet will have lost the powers of sight within a few weeks.
But then again, facts have never played much part in sermons.
I suppose the thing that really gets under my skin is the absolute lack of respect for other ideologies. There's a very slim tolerance, to be sure, tolerance in the sense they don't firebomb people who don't subscribe to their ideology. But let's take the whole gay marriage issue. I got into a debate with a Christer once about this. His whole reason for lobbying against gay marriage was that marriage was "a contract with God" and homosexuality was "against God". Well, technically, eating pork, shellfish and cheeseburgers is against God too but apparently that's not AS against God as being a homosexual. I digress however. The point I made to him was that marriage, in a legal sense, is nothing more than a legal contract, an binding and exclusive incorporation of two individual citizens. If the Constitution and Bill of Rights state that all citizens are equal under the law and cannot be discriminated against according to gender, race, religion or what-have-you, then specifying that said contract can only exist between citizens of differing genders goes against the Constitution - e.g., is *UNCONSTITUTIONAL*. He said that he couldn't support anything that went against his god. I suggested that he may not worship Allah, Vishnu or Zoroaster, but I don't hear him attempting to deny marriage to these followers of supposedly false religions. He said they were still enjoining a contract with their Gods. "What about Atheists?" I asked. "They're allowed to get married and they don't believe in any God." The conversation just sort of... stopped at that point and he walked out of the room. I didn't take much to tell he was pissed off and didn't want to talk about it anymore.
These sort of conversations drive me totally batty. Whenever I seem to be making a point against which a Christer can't form an argument, they shut down and walk away rather than consider the option that their opinion may be flawed. Like the above guy: instead of grudgingly agreeing that yes, believe it or not, "faggots" have human rights too, he shut down and refused to talk about it further.
He has a right to disagree-- on religious or any other principles-- with a person's homosexual "lifestyle". This is America, people have the right to disagree on principle with a lot of things. I disagree on principle with charging interest - and supposedly, so does the Christian Bible -- but that doesn't stop institutions claiming "Christian lending principles" from charging interest either. I guess they subscribe more to the part of the Bible that states "God helps those who help themselves". But disagreeing on principle, regardless of the solidity of your religious and/or philisophical convictions does not give you the right to interfere with another person's Constitutional rights.
Now that I think of it, here's a quandary to stump the Jesus People. Their arguments go something like this: it was God's Will that the United States became the "Greatest Nation on Earth" and that God influences Constitution through His will. If the Constitution deems that all citizens are equal and cannot legally be subject to any sort of discrimination, does that mean God made a mistake?
I'm getting a bit cranky here, I know. But let's take another instance of something that drives me batshit. Turns out that the majority of military chaplains are Evangelical Christians -- 60% of all chaplains by last count. Well, those chaplains are pissed off that the military has a ban on proselytizing and are suing the military for discrimination. Once again the oppressed Christian bit. Real cute. Personally, I can imagine nothing more aggravating than having to deal with someone-- usually a superior officer in the case of most chaplains-- following me around a combat zone and attempting to convert me. Or trying to convert me while I vent during a counseling session. Yeah, real morale builder there. Not that I've ever been in the military mind you, but hey, Jews are asked to fight on the Sabbath -- Muslims must place the call of duty above and beyond the sacrosanct call to prayer... But Evangelicals are being oppresed by being asked to put aside their religious prejudices in order to minister to the soliders equally? Fuckin' A.
That's all for now, but as this a pet peeve of mine I'm sure it'll come up again. It's like an acute case of vomiting - something's always coming up.
--Mekkis, the Eyeconoclast--
Not to Put Too Fine a Point on It... (Score:1)
Not that it matters outside curiosity, but have you actually read any of Darwin's works? The funny thing about evolution theory is that it is not intended as a religion in and of itself, u
The Objective vs. the Subjective (Score:1)
My frustration stems not from the existence of Christians, nor from my opinion of "Christian Values", but rather the attempt by Christians to enforce through political means that subjective value-set upon others who don't (or won't) subscribe to them. Most of the text of my previous posts addresses this fact, and instead, the individual examples used to expla
Progression or Regression? (Score:1)
To Summarize... (Score:1)
1. The U.S. has already categorically stated it is a non-Christian nation in the way nations do: in drafting its founding documents and reinforcing said statement through torts, amendments and legal rulings. Any confusion on this point is that which ha
The Debate Rages On (Score:1)
Round and Round She Goes... (Score:1)
What I've been trying to point out is that these two wishes are mutually exclusive. Either you have a nation where everyone is free to worship as they see fit and are granted fair, equal and impartial treatment under law (the definition of justice) or you have a nation with one religion established as su
Still Going. (Score:1)
You mention that Muslims in Britain feel like second-class citizens.
No, I mentioned that Muslims in Britain are second-class citizens because of the inherent bias in favor of Christians in British law. The same goes for atheists or any other non-Christian. I disagree with you that "the majority of Christians are totally against God and the Church," because due to first-hand observation I can tell you most Britons attend religious services. Just because the majority aren't as