Journal tompaulco's Journal: Negotiating a no-no? 1
I recently received a job offer from a local company. The offer itself was somewhat low on salary for the experience required. In addition, the job offered no paid holidays or vacation. Of course, they would still require you to take certain holidays off, they just wouldn't pay for them. The job was also somewhat risky, as the company basically did projects for outside companies, and if they didn't get a contract for a few weeks, they would let you go. Essentially, you were a W2 contractor for this company. In fact, if I had taken the job, I would have been termed a contract employee. However, in an effort to play both sides of the fence, despite all the lack of paid time off, and the fact that you would get laid off if there was no work, they still also termed their contract employees as exempt so that they wouldn't have to pay them overtime.
Well, since they offered no paid time off, I had to figure out how much that was going to cost me each year. They kept telling me to look at the "total package". However, they should have told me to just look at the base salary, because the total package involved me having to subtract from that. The total compensation they were offering was a few thousand more than I make at my present job. However, I stand to lose probably five or six thousand if I leave my present job, due to quarterly bonuses, 401k matching, profit sharing, Employee Stock Purchase program and other stuff. So in effect, the new company was asking me to make a move for a decrease in pay, at least for the first year.
While doing some research on salaries in the area, I found that the amount they were offering was about $10,000 below the average for the position. So they were offering below market wages AND not paying any time off.
So, naturally, I could not accept their offer. Instead, I made a counter offer. I asked for a compromise between what I was asking, which was industry average (despite thinking of myself as above average. See how accomodating I am?) and the amount they offered. I also asked that they pay for holidays and three weeks vacation. I told them that if it was a problem to give a new hire three weeks paid vacation, I would settle for two weeks. I also asked for a modest starting bonus to cover the losses I would suffer from leaving the old job.
Apparently, they were very upset at this counter offer, and I will no longer be considered for positions at this company. They rescinded the offer and gave the job to someone else. (Actually, no one else in this region has the combination of skills they were looking for, so I guess they had to settle for someone who can't do the job as effectively as me).
So when did it become a no-no to negotiate with a prospective employer? I realize this isn't the dot com era, but the economy is getting better, I am getting several notices a week from headhunters seeking to see if I am available. Another good question is, if you can't negotiate at hire time, when do you negotiate? Once a company has you, it is almost impossible to negotiate a new salary. If you get a raise, it will be only a few thousand. Just as in the '90s, the only way to get a significant raise is to go to a new company. Well, anyway, I feel that I should be allowed to negotiate with a company that pays far less than industry average, offers no paid time off, and expects you to take the risk of losing your job if they can't find a contract. I guess they figure they can find some suckers in the local market that don't have a job and would be willing to take anything just to work. That kind of sucks, because it brings down the average salaries for those of us who are more experienced and can actually do the job.
Well, since they offered no paid time off, I had to figure out how much that was going to cost me each year. They kept telling me to look at the "total package". However, they should have told me to just look at the base salary, because the total package involved me having to subtract from that. The total compensation they were offering was a few thousand more than I make at my present job. However, I stand to lose probably five or six thousand if I leave my present job, due to quarterly bonuses, 401k matching, profit sharing, Employee Stock Purchase program and other stuff. So in effect, the new company was asking me to make a move for a decrease in pay, at least for the first year.
While doing some research on salaries in the area, I found that the amount they were offering was about $10,000 below the average for the position. So they were offering below market wages AND not paying any time off.
So, naturally, I could not accept their offer. Instead, I made a counter offer. I asked for a compromise between what I was asking, which was industry average (despite thinking of myself as above average. See how accomodating I am?) and the amount they offered. I also asked that they pay for holidays and three weeks vacation. I told them that if it was a problem to give a new hire three weeks paid vacation, I would settle for two weeks. I also asked for a modest starting bonus to cover the losses I would suffer from leaving the old job.
Apparently, they were very upset at this counter offer, and I will no longer be considered for positions at this company. They rescinded the offer and gave the job to someone else. (Actually, no one else in this region has the combination of skills they were looking for, so I guess they had to settle for someone who can't do the job as effectively as me).
So when did it become a no-no to negotiate with a prospective employer? I realize this isn't the dot com era, but the economy is getting better, I am getting several notices a week from headhunters seeking to see if I am available. Another good question is, if you can't negotiate at hire time, when do you negotiate? Once a company has you, it is almost impossible to negotiate a new salary. If you get a raise, it will be only a few thousand. Just as in the '90s, the only way to get a significant raise is to go to a new company. Well, anyway, I feel that I should be allowed to negotiate with a company that pays far less than industry average, offers no paid time off, and expects you to take the risk of losing your job if they can't find a contract. I guess they figure they can find some suckers in the local market that don't have a job and would be willing to take anything just to work. That kind of sucks, because it brings down the average salaries for those of us who are more experienced and can actually do the job.
you did nothing wrong (Score:1)
Actually my experiences with my last two job-hunting processes made me think that not negotiating is the no-no:
1) Two job hu