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Journal pudge's Journal: Energizer Election 10

Journal by pudge

What's been happening in the Washington state governor race:

Republican Dino Rossi was declared governor-elect this week by the Secretary of State, after winning the recount by 42 votes.

The state Democratic party vowed to call for an additional recount, as is their right. They can call for recounts only in certain places, or statewide. They must make a payment of $.25 per vote for a hand recount, $.15 for machine. If the recount overturns the result, they get their money back. If it is a *partial* recount that overturns the result, then a full recount (paid for by the state) results.

John Kerry gave them a third of the money they needed, $250,000. Howard Dean made a nationwide appeal for donations that brought in much of the rest.

Everyone knew a partial recount was politically a no-win for the Democrats. If they lose, they just wasted everyone's time. If they win, then they waste everyone's time AND money, especially if the statewide recount flips it back to Rossi. So a full recount is the only good way to go.

After realizing that the money would be there for a full recount, Democrat Christine Gregoire said she would concede unless they had a full recount. (Magnanimous of her, don't you think?)

The Democrats ponied up the dough, and filed a lawsuit with the state supreme court to change the way votes are counted.

The (Republican) Secretary of State announced that no new votes would be included in this recount. It would be a recount: the exact same number of ballots in the last count would be in this count. This is vitally important, because it's the difference between trying to scrounge around for votes, and making sure we counted the votes properly the last time.

I have no problem with a recount, per se. Follow the legal process. And I am glad this will be a real recount, not including additional votes. I am not even necessarily against the Democrat's lawsuit, if they can prove that the current rules violate someone's rights under the state Constitution (I doubt that is provable, but I don't know the state law or Constitution well [note that Bush v Gore can apply, since though this is not an election for national office, the 14th Amendment specifically includes "the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof"]).

But what really bugs me is the idea that a hand recount is necessarily more accurate. Maybe in the case of punchcard ballots it would be, since we know those have many physical problems more easily identifiable by hand. But optical scanners do not have such significant issues, and the possibility of simple miscounting by human handling is likely greater than the possibility of machine error.

Anyway, this whole thing should be over by December 23, said the Secretary of State, barring legal challenges.

Which means it probably won't be over by December 23.

This discussion was created by pudge (3605) for no Foes, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Energizer Election More

Energizer Election

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  • Do you know what the proceedure is if the election is still up in the air come swearing-in time?
    • As far as I know, there is none. My guess would be that Rossi would be sworn in unless something happens to change his status as governor-elect (which might mean the Republicans have some cause to drag things out ...). But I don't know if there is some drop dead date before that, and of course the state supreme court can attempt to do anything it wants.
    • Didn't the Gorton/Cantwell Senate race in 2000 end up in a hand count?

      Of course a key difference in that race is both canidates were playing nice with each other while the votes were counted.

      As for your question I believe Rossi will be sworn in unless Gregiore is declared Governor elect (which could happen if the recount puts her ahead).

      If for some reason the Governor-elect can't be sworn in I believe the Lt. Governor will be the acting governor.

      Of course after Locke I'm not sure anyone would notice if

  • Recount (Score:2)

    by ces ( 119879 )
    But what really bugs me is the idea that a hand recount is necessarily more accurate. Maybe in the case of punchcard ballots it would be, since we know those have many physical problems more easily identifiable by hand. But optical scanners do not have such significant issues, and the possibility of simple miscounting by human handling is likely greater than the possibility of machine error.

    First of all as you note a hand-count is provided for under state law.

    Second the optical scan machines do have an e
    • Second the optical scan machines do have an error rate. While it is low compared to almost any other ballot counting method including DRE touchscreen machines it is there.

      Including manual recounts - particularly for punchcards, where repeated handling has been known to dislodge material creating extra holes. Just a couple of instances per million cards would be enough to swing the election when it's this close...

      When stray marks on the ballot or improper filling in of the circles next to the name result

      • Including manual recounts - particularly for punchcards, where repeated handling has been known to dislodge material creating extra holes. Just a couple of instances per million cards would be enough to swing the election when it's this close...

        Punch cards aren't really a factor. There aren't that many counties (if any) still using punch-cards and hand counts are more accurate for punch-cards than a machine count.

        I don't like the sound of "correcting" a vote at all, on principle - too dangerous. If the
    • First of all as you note a hand-count is provided for under state law.

      Yes, of course. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

      Second the optical scan machines do have an error rate.

      Right. Just lower than counting by hand, I'd wager.

      Also not all of Washington's counties use optical scan ballots. I believe at least one or two are still using punch-cards and Snohomish County uses DRE touchscreen machines for people who vote in-person.

      It's more like 2/3 optical, 1/3 punch card, and two counties using to
      • Yes, of course. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

        I don't see a problem with hand counts. IIRC all ballots in Canada are counted by hand and they don't seem to have problems.

        Right. Just lower than counting by hand, I'd wager.

        With party observers present watching the whole thing I don't think there will be a lot of errors the party reps won't catch. (IOW I think it is likely to be at least as accurate as the machine count)

        It's more like 2/3 optical, 1/3 punch card, and two counties using touchscree
        • I'd like to think they are giving their honest opinions but it is hard to overcome the suspicion that they are being at least a little bit partisan.

          Well, of course you would think that: they are Republicans, and they are vigorously defending (well, except for Reed) the Republican candidate. I'd be shocked if someone didn't think that. :-)

          But it doesn't mean they're wrong. Even the left-leaning election officials in King County said they thought a hand recount could be less accurate.
          • In Reed's case he needs to make every effort to appear fair because of the office he holds. I would expect no less.

            As for Munro, I have a lot of respect for him so his opinions carry a lot of weight even if I think they might have a bit of partisan taint to them.

            Also as you point out, King County election officials (who are the only appointed ones in the state, all 38 other counties have an elected county auditor as the top county election official) don't think a hand recount will be more accurate than th

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