pudge's Journal: Taxing Churches

Said Howard Dean in yesterday's Christian Science Monitor: "The religious community has to decide whether they want to be tax exempt or involved in politics."

What part of "Congress shall make no law" do you not understand?

Moreover

[Red Warrior]

It is an impossible choice, and an immoral one to try to impose.
Politcs is, at it's base, nothing more than trying to make society better - as you define better.
For a religious organization to be told not to try to make society better is abusrd.
To not campaign for a particular candidate? Maybe. To not try to advance thier views (be it abstinence and pro-life on one extreme or social justice, "living wages", and the like on the other end) is... Well, absurd.

I'm sure Dean REALLY meant "those religous people w

Re:Moreover

[pudge]

Hold on just a minute. Do you mean to tell me that Dean might not be totally consistent and honest in his criticisms?

I am shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.

first shot at a liberal church

[p0w]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-allsaints7 nov07,0,6769876.story?coll=la-home-headlines [latimes.com] Nov. 7th 2005 LA Times

Re:first shot at a liberal church

[Red Warrior]

Based on the article you linked, I conclude 3 things. 1. The Reverend was wrong, 2. The Reverend can't make a sound theological arguement to save his soul (heh), 3. The action by the IRS is wrong[1], silly[2], and immoral[3].
--End core content--

--start non-random musings--

P.S. I sincerely doubt it's the first shot at a liberal (or conservative or otherwise for that matter.) church. In fact, It probably wasn't the first shot at a liberal church that day.

P.P.S. Yes, it's just as bad when targeted at a "libera

Re:first shot at a liberal church

[p0w]

I've heard rumblings from the Left about Religious Right churches for a while now but hadn't seen anything as drastic as the IRS coming after a church like this. Left or Right, it is a troubling scenario no matter which way you lean. I was suprised that this got so little play back in December.

Re:first shot at a liberal church

[mgessner]

There are a group of Ohio pastors that have been complaining about a couple of other Ohio pastors for making statements about political candidates in the upcoming Replublican primary.

It's the liberals complaining about the conservatives.

If charging

[NeMon'ess]

If charging churches (removing tax exemption) to be political abridges their freedom of speech, perhaps the tax exemptions for churches should be removed entirely.

Re:If charging

[pudge]

The problem is that those who hold to the strict "wall of separation between church and state" must logically oppose taxing churches, because the power to tax is the power to control, and that specifically interferes with the letter and spirit of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."

If you allow that we can tax churches, that government can be involved in churches, then that necessarily opens the door to churches being involved in government ...

Re:If charging

[NeMon'ess]

Maybe a church or two will take him up on that, the way some union guys told McCain they'd pick lettuce for $50 an hour. Since Dean said the "religious community" though, he has an out.

Re:If charging

[peacefinder]

Does that apply to government payments, as well as to government taxes?

That is, if the government gives money to a church, be it as a donation or as payment for services rendered (homeless shelter, parocial school voucher, head start, whatever...) does that also imply that the church is submitting to some form of government control?

Re:If charging

[pudge]

if the government gives money to a church, be it as a donation or as payment for services rendered (homeless shelter, parocial school voucher, head start, whatever...) does that also imply that the church is submitting to some form of government control?

Only if the church takes on an obligation as part of the transaction. And whether that obligation is a problem for them is up to them.