pudge's Journal: Election Fraud

We just found out this weekend that the GOP candidate lost the Snohomish County Council race as the result of election fraud.

OK, we don't know for sure that it made the difference, but it is quite likely: everyone believes Stephens (the one who ran illegally) "took" a lot more votes from Sax than from Somers, including Stephens himself. And Stephens even admitted he is planning on moving anyway (which raises the question: why run for office in a county you were planning on moving from?).

There's a lot of unanswered questions, but one thing is simple, and obviously true: if a candidate runs for office runs illegally, and got enough votes to change the result of the election, then that calls the result into question. "Duh." The question is what the law can, or should, do about it.

I won't say whether Terwilliger's a "flaming liberal" as Sax said, but certainly his judgment in not overturning the election is to be questioned, because he has a vested interest in having Sax lose. His biggest issue this year was to go to all-mail voting in the county (which is a de facto violation of my rights, but that's another discussion); the Republican majority on the Council prevented it, and with Somers the victor over Sax, it seems likely that he will now get what he wants.

Note that Terwilliger has the same name as the evil Simpsons villain, "Sideshow" Bob Terwilliger. Coincidence?

all-mail voting

[Kymermosst]

His biggest issue this year was to go to all-mail voting in the county (which is a de facto violation of my rights, but that's another discussion)

I look forward to that discussion, as I live in all-mail-voting Oregon.

I'm not sure how all-mail voting violates your rights.

Re:all-mail voting

[pudge]

I'm not sure how all-mail voting violates your rights.

The bottom line is that your vote is more likely to be counted incorrectly, or not counted, with mail-in ballots. In my county, there are ZERO tabulation errors with electronic voting machines. There were significant mistakes last year with mail-in ballots. Going to all-mail voting will by definition make my vote less likely to be counted properly, thereby restricting my right to vote.

Re:all-mail voting

[Kymermosst]

There were significant mistakes last year with mail-in ballots. Going to all-mail voting will by definition make my vote less likely to be counted properly, thereby restricting my right to vote.

Interesting. We (the GOP) send people to directly observe the ballot counting. The Dems do, as well. Most of us figure that mail-in ballots don't lend more to tabulation error (you use the same ballot you'd use in a voting booth, anyway), but do lead to voter influence. Like people forcing their spouses to vote a

Re:all-mail voting

[pudge]

Interesting. We (the GOP) send people to directly observe the ballot counting. The Dems do, as well. Most of us figure that mail-in ballots don't lend more to tabulation error (you use the same ballot you'd use in a voting booth, anyway), but do lead to voter influence. Like people forcing their spouses to vote a certain way, etc.

Oh, there's certainly that sort of voter fraud going on with mail ballots. Here in WA we have some evidence to suggest this happened with invalids in nursing homes, as another exa

Re:all-mail voting

[ces]

However, here we do not have the same ballots for mail and voting booths. There is *no error* in tabulation of the voting booth votes, period, because they are electronic ... barring fraud, of course, and machine crashing, which has not ever happened for us.

I think only two WA counties are using electronic voting machines so far. With the counties using optical scan ballots often the voting booth and mail-in ballots are exactly the same.

But with mail/paper ballots, you have to sometimes interpret a vote, wh

Re:all-mail voting

[pudge]

I think only two WA counties are using electronic voting machines so far.

State law says counties get to make the choice. Our county uses electronic machines -- ones they spent millions on just a few years ago -- and should continue to do so.

With the counties using optical scan ballots often the voting booth and mail-in ballots are exactly the same.

Even if the ballot itself is the same, the process is not. Fraud is much more rampant with mail-in voting (as we saw, there were a significant number of double

Re:all-mail voting

[ces]

King County is apparently going to all mail-in ballots. Take that for what you will.

Personally I don't have a big problem with it since I already get my ballot in the mail.

However I will miss the ablity to drop my ballot off at the nearest polling place as I like to ensure my ballot makes it to the elections people.

Re:all-mail voting

[pudge]

Personally I don't have a big problem with it since I already get my ballot in the mail.

Do you have a problem with the fact that most election fraud takes place through the mail, and that far more mistakes -- mostly due to losing ballots -- happens through the mail?

I know going to all-mail doesn't affect the former. People who want to commit fraud will use the ability to vote by mail anyway, since it exists without this move. And I know that since you dropped your ballot off at a polling place, you are no

Re:all-mail voting

[ces]

Well for what it is worth I became a much more regular voter once I went permenent absentee ...

Don't really know about either the fraud or just plain screwups involved in the mail-in voting versus making most people go to the polling place.

Essentially there are three reasons I go to the polling place to drop off my ballot:

1. I never remember to mail the darn thing back early and I never have the proper postage handy since I don't mail off any of my other bills.
2. I know my ballot is more likely to make it b

Re:all-mail voting

[pudge]

Well for what it is worth I became a much more regular voter once I went permenent absentee ...

I don't pretend there is nothing good about mail voting. I just state that the good -- essentially, the convenience -- is not justified by the bad.

Imagine your bank said you had to receive all your money by mail from now on. No more ATMs. Ignoring the obvious convenience problem that poses, would you be happy about it? No, because there is a much greater liklihood that your money will get lost.

I am actually in

Re:all-mail voting

[ces]

I am actually in favor of efforts to make voting easier in the future, but doing it on paper ballots through the mail is the WORST method imaginable. Except for maybe carrier pigeon.

Well I like getting the ballot in the mail, but there should be an alternate method for getting one should the postal service lose it or something. OTOH making people drop the ballots off and providing some form of checking at that time (like asking for ID) might not be a bad idea.

I envision someday we will be able to vote onlin

Moo

[ncc74656]

Note that Terwilliger has the same name as the evil Simpsons villain, "Sideshow" Bob Terwilliger. Coincidence?

When you say "Terwilliger," a certain ass-kissing goody-two-shoes cop [tv.com] is what comes to mind here. :-)