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Journal pudge's Journal: Rep. Murtha is a Commie Coward 12

Journal by pudge

OK, not really. I just didn't want to miss out on the heightened rhetoric and namecalling (which I should note Murtha himself has engaged in, to some degree, although to his credit, he backed down from his initial emotional reactions).

Anyway.

I think the characterization of Rep. Jack Murtha's plan to withdraw doesn't well-represent his actual plan. People are talking about it like he would bring all the troops home now. But that's not the case.

First, he's saying it should be a phased withdrawal on a tight timeline to begin now, and extend over the course of six months. Second, he would not bring them all home, but keep many of them in the region (a quick-reaction force, plus a Marine presence), just not actually in Iraq.

I don't agree with Murtha's plan, but only because of the merits, not the characterization. And I do think there's some good ideas there, especially in making the Iraqis step up their takeover of their own security by forcing the issue.

From the beginning, my desire has been to stabilize Iraq enough that we could leave. I don't know if we're at that point, but it's worth considering that we could speed up Iraq's progress toward self-sufficiency by a gradual removal of our troops, especially since our troops are often the target.

Another good idea is keeping significant forces in the region so they can aid the Iraqis if necessary. It's a middle position between staying in Iraq, and "abandoning" it entirely.

However, I don't think it should be done immediately: I think we should wait until the current political process is played out (remember, elections are coming up on December 15). Maybe at that time, it would make sense to begin pulling out, though I wouldn't think it should be done as quickly as Murtha suggests.

But really, isn't this what the military itself has been talking about, beginning a pullout next year, after the December elections? Murtha's plan is not all that different, except it calls for a return now, regardless of the stability on the ground, and over a shorter period of time.

I think the outrage here has been way overblown. There's some obvious differences between Murtha and the administration and the military on this, but his plan is not all that outrageous, that I can see.

This discussion was created by pudge (3605) for no Foes, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Rep. Murtha is a Commie Coward More

Rep. Murtha is a Commie Coward

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  • Whoa. Slow down or you might miss this [mensnewsdaily.com] little posting.

    Guaranteed to meet or exceed your USDA daily-recommended allowance of VLWC.
    • Woha! Someone needs to switch to decaf.

      I think most people realize we are going to leave Iraq sooner or later. The disagreements when you get down to it are over the timetable and what milestones need to be reached before a large scale draw-down begins.

      If I'm remembering correctly what RW has been saying for a while isn't much different from what either Rep. Murtha or Pudge have said recently.
      • Just to clarify my longstanding view on this: I want us to stay only as long as we have to, to ensure Iraq's government's stability, which aids our own long-term security. But I think we might be reaching the point where we can start to draw down our troop levels, and the sooner the better. And I have no problem at all with a discussion about when and how to do this, even if I disagree with when or how Murtha wants it done.
        • Could we please finish up in Germany, Japan and North Korea first?
          You know, those Democrat wars that did not have international sanction? I mean, Germany had less to do with the attack on us than Iraq did.
      • And we'll be leaving Germany and Japan sooner or later, too. Maybe in another 50 or 100 years, since we've been there for only 50 years to date.

        And how long til we end our occupation of Florida, Utah or Texas?

        Puerto Rico? Guam? Hawaii?

        It took us 100 years to end our troop presence in the Philippines.

        I just can't believe what I'm hearing in regards to Iraq. It's not just that history apparently isn't being taught anymore, it's apparently being actively obliterated.
        • Well I've heard a number of people on both sides say that US troop levels in Iraq could be drawn down a bit from where they are now and that it would be helpful for the US presence to be mostly limited to bases outside the population centers.

          Basicly the 'rapid reaction force' idea.

          The theory is this would force the Iraqi government and the Iraqi National Guard to get their shit together.

          Now I suppose the idea of wether or not we keep long-term bases there or not is another debate. Though the President himse
  • I often read your JEs and agree with them, and don't post anything since you often hit all the bases and leave little to add. This is one of those. I just like to let folks know when they do well.
  • The main reason for the outrage is because it was proposed by a Democrat. The characterizations come from the fact that Republicans are pissed that a guy with actual experience in War on the Defense Appropriations committee and sometime ally (going back to and predating Reagan) is breaking ranks and using words like "quagmire."

    BushCo and the Republicans bristle at VietNam allusions. Its fine, when someone with no military experience (in VietNam no less) says it or when someone with VietNam experience says
    • The main reason for the outrage is because it was proposed by a Democrat. The characterizations come from the fact that Republicans are pissed that a guy with actual experience in War on the Defense Appropriations committee and sometime ally (going back to and predating Reagan) is breaking ranks and using words like "quagmire."

      There's a problem with that theory, though: A year ago Murtha called the war unwinnable, and I think it's extremely short-sighted to call the war on Iraq anything but a resounding m

      • A year ago Murtha called the war unwinnable

        But Murtha is a hawk!!! How dare you come down against the conventional wisdom -- and I do mean "wisdom"!!! -- of the mainstream press and the Democratic party???

        I think it's extremely short-sighted to call the war on Iraq anything but a resounding military victory.

        Yes, but this is coming from the same people who called the Katrina rescue effort -- tens of thousands of people saved by the federal and local governments in the few days after the levees broke, the la

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