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Journal pudge's Journal: Homeschooling 30

Journal by pudge

I saw this on Wikipedia recently:

Most homeschooling advocates are wary of the established educational institutions for various reasons. Some are religious conservatives who see nonreligious education as contrary to their moral or religious systems. Others feel that they can more effectively tailor a curriculum to suit an individual student's academic strengths and weaknesses, especially those with learning disabilities. Still others feel that the negative social pressures of schools (such as bullying, drugs, crime, and other school-related problems) are detrimental to a child's proper development.

How about "all of the above, and more"? (OK, I am not against nonreligious instruction for my children for religious reasons: I am against it for intellectual reasons. But still.)

Then there's this gem:

Opponents' stated concerns fall into several broad categories, including fears of poor academic quality, loss of income for the schools, and religious or social extremism. (For example, a creationist parent could remove a child from public school because the school's biology curriculum teaches evolution by natural selection.) Furthermore, some believe that removing children from the school environment could hamper their ability to socialize with peers their own age.

I love how people think any of those objections are reasonable. But Wikipedia is correct, they are common.

First, academic quality is relative and subjective. I might not teach much about gender issues that an "educator" might find important. Who gets to say what's important? (Hint: me.) Further, even the most poorly educated homeschooled children I've ever seen are more well-educated than the average public school child I've known. Sorry, but it's true.

Loss of income is the worst reason possible for being against homeschooling. The school gets that money for one reason only: to educate the particular child in question. If you don't have the child, you don't need the money. Duh. Why is this the worst reason, though? Because the other reasons at least are borne of some concern for the public good. This one is not. It's just nonsense.

"Extremism" is another terrible reason. I think the public school curriculum is often quite extreme. Who gets to decide what is best for the child? (Another hint: me. OK, it's not so much of a hint as a statement of fact, but if you really need a hint, a hint probably wouldn't help you.)

Socialization is another ridiculous concern. That's the exact same thing as saying, "I don't think the parents will teach their children how to read." It's called teaching and learning. Teaching socialization is no different, in the broad discussion of homeschooling, as anything else that is to be taught. Yes, it's true that many homeschoolers don't do socialization well, but -- and here's the funniest part -- neither do most public schools.

Now Playing: Green Day - Take Back

This discussion was created by pudge (3605) for no Foes, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Homeschooling More

Homeschooling

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  • This is kind of long- but if you have time to take a look at it and want to respond, I'd appreciate it. I've shared my thoughts, not to try and debate the issue but just to see what you think. I've talked this over with others as well and I have a leaning right now, but it's not a closed issue in my mind. So I always look for opportunities to get new input

    My wife and I talk about this a lot. Our oldest just started kindergarten this year. Our second starts next year and our third, a couple year

    • Re:heh (Score:2)

      by pudge ( 3605 ) *
      The quality of education. I've met multiple homeschooled kids who had extremely poor math skills. I think math is essential.

      If you think calculus is essential, I will disagree with you. I think the only essential skills for everyone are basic algebra and geometry skills. I got a 740 in my math SATs with only those under my belt. So I am not sure what you mean by essential, but I think math is the least important of the core skills taught in school (at least, beyond rudimentary skills I had mastered by th
      • Thanks for taking the time to read all that and respond in such detail. I'm not going to respond to any of it, since what I need to do now is read it a few times and think it all over. But really, thanks.
    • Answering just a few of the complaints:

      The quality of education. I've met multiple homeschooled kids who had extremely poor math skills. I think math is essential.

      There have been broad studies that bear out pudge's assertion: that the worst home schooled children do better, on average, than public school children. And even with home school parents who have very little education themselves. Thus, your experience is the exception, rather than the rule.

      (My father is a public school teacher, while my wife and

      • Re:heh (Score:2)

        by pudge ( 3605 ) *
        If you were starting from scratch, aiming for an environment in which to expose children to various social situations for the purpose of educating them about how to function in society, it would be hard to come up with a worse situation than placing 20 or so children with similar ages all together in a room for hours on end. And do that same thing for years and years.

        Amen brotha!
  • Who gets to decide what is best for the child? (Another hint: me. OK, it's not so much of a hint as a statement of fact, but if you really need a hint, a hint probably wouldn't help you.)

    The scary thing is, there are a lot of people (and it seems like more and more everyday) that would completely disagree with you. Too many of them are in places of power.. like the judge here in California that just recently ruled that parents don't have a right to know about the sex ed topics in their kids' schools nor ha
    • What amazes me are the same people that scream "don't legislate what I can/can't do with my body" in regards to things like abortion, will turn around and take away all the parent's rights about education, even minors getting a medical procedure like abortion herself.

      Damn those "same people," they're always causing so much trouble, what with their saying things on one hand and saying other things on the other. Someone should do something about the "same people."

      What amazes me are the same people who insist
      • What amazes me are the same people who insist that the moment of conception is the "birth" of a wholy independent person will turn around and treat that person once it's born as the property of its parents.

        I've never met anyone who does that.

        You seem to not understand the difference between "property" and "offspring." I am the parent. I make the choices, because it is my obligation to bring this child up properly, and without broad freedom and authority, I cannot properly fulfill that obligation. This is
  • The strongest (by far, IMHO) real argument against homeschooling is that it's simply economically inefficient. A kid preally doesn't need a whole dedicated teacher; a tenth of teacher (or whatever -- pick your fraction) is 95% as good. But if the parents want to pay for this, what right does anyone else have, to demand that they not be inefficient with their time?
    • The strongest (by far, IMHO) real argument against homeschooling is that it's simply economically inefficient.

      I don't see how this is an argument against homeschooling.

      A kid preally doesn't need a whole dedicated teacher; a tenth of teacher (or whatever -- pick your fraction) is 95% as good.

      Kids don't need dedicated parents either. A tenth of a parent is just as good. Why not have government parents?

      But if the parents want to pay for this, what right does anyone else have, to demand that they not be ineff
  • Now Playing: Green Day - Take Back

    I'm suprised. I quit listening to Green Day when they decided to name the Bush administration the "worst ever".

    • If I removed all the music by people who've said and done stupid things, I'd have little left.

      Anyway, I didn't choose them, iTunes did! I normally just put my playlist (of over 5000 tracks) on shuffle.
      • If I removed all the music by people who've said and done stupid things, I'd have little left.

        True enough, but some things are more stupid than others. It's not the criticism that bothers me, it's the manner and frequency.

        Then again, a lot of their music is pretty good. I won't give 'em money, but I might give up on switching stations when they are played.
      • At some point, you chose them. You bought their discs. The question is whether you continue to buy thier discs as there views have become more diametrically opposed to your own?

  • I think I diagree with one of your points, depending on how you are defining "socialization". This, to me, is the one absolute disadvantage of homeschooling. I'd say a kids socialization isn't just about meeting and introducing themselves to people, chatting with them one on one or whatever. I'd say socialization also needs to have a component of getting on with groups over a long period of time, learning the often hard lessons of who to trust and who not to, making mistakes with people without a parents ov
    • I think I diagree with one of your points, depending on how you are defining "socialization". This, to me, is the one absolute disadvantage of homeschooling.

      Then subject your own kids to it. Have fun.

      I'd say a kids socialization isn't just about meeting and introducing themselves to people, chatting with them one on one or whatever. I'd say socialization also needs to have a component of getting on with groups over a long period of time, learning the often hard lessons of who to trust and who not to, makin
  • Further, even the most poorly educated homeschooled children I've ever seen are more well-educated than the average public school child I've known. Sorry, but it's true.

    Sorry, but it's not been true in my case. With my volunteerism as a Cub Scout leader for the past several years we've has several families join the pack that homeschooled their children. Most of them did it for religious and/or educational reasons, and were upfront about it. But there were also several that did it because the school day 'd
    • But there were also several that did it because the school day 'did not conform to THEIR schedule' or 'they had a argument with the school administration over a discipline issue concerning their child'.

      Sucks to be those kids, having such irresponsible parents. But they are still the parents, and they get to make the choice.

      I've been fortunate enough never to run into such parents.
  • First, I think the "homeschooled kids are smarter!" "no, they're worse!" back and forth is just a result of bad sample size--I seem to recall studies that indicated that, broadly, homeschooled kids and public-school kids ended up around the same on average, but that homeschoolers had a much wider variance (from the diner-owner-parents kid mentioned in a comment on one end of the scale up to where Pudge's are likely to be on the top end)--which seems like an obvious result. Current data is always welcome th
    • Are you planning on letting your child(ren) direct their own education more towards the end of their high school years, and if so do you have a plan for covering subjects that you yourself are not as competent to teach? (I'm thinking that a good homeschooling group would help with this but I'm not sure how that sort of thing works in "real life")

      Frankly, I think this is a bit wrong-headed. Not entirely, but a bit. When I was in high school, had I wanted to learn calculus, I could have done so myself, give
    • Responding to a throwaway: am I the only person on Slashdot who uses things they learned from college on a day-to-day basis in my job? =)

      Nope. I use a hell of a lot of my college (including graduate work) studies. But then again, I had some idea of who I was when I started school, chose a field that had fascinated me most of my life, went to a school that I enjoyed and thrived in, and have worked in various aspects of that field to this day. I also learned a ton about art, culture, and learning that I

    • Responding to a throwaway: am I the only person on Slashdot who uses things they learned from college on a day-to-day basis in my job? =)

      Nope. It's one of the benefits of a liberal arts education, I'll use it almost every day where ever I work.

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