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Comment: Re:systemd, eh? (Score 1) 463

by MSG (#49549423) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

Again, people posted repro steps, and I gave another example of a systemd bug so why you defending systemd?

Because I copied and pasted those steps into both CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 systems. Exit status was reflected in a "failed" state as expected, it wasn't thrown away. Messages written to stderr were recorded in both the journal and the syslog messages file. The steps described to reproduce the problem do not reproduce the problem on any system I have access to.

Comment: Re: systemd rules!!! (Score 4, Informative) 463

by MSG (#49546493) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

Well, I also tried it and could not reproduce those results on either Fedora 21 or CentOS 7. Both systems logged stderr to both the journal and the syslog messages file.

The old init system did not log stderr. If you didn't see an error printed to a tty, it was lost. systemd is actually an improvement in exactly the aspect that ACs complain about through this thread.

Comment: Re:systemd is a bad joke (Score 1) 463

by MSG (#49546455) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

the value of a craftsman is in his knowledge and experience of his tools

...and Linux had a bunch of non-POSIX features that went unused because the old init system was meant to be portable.

The people with knowledge of their tools (Linux, in this case) are quite happy to actually be using it rather than letting its features sit idle.

Comment: Re:systemd rules!!! (Score 2) 463

by MSG (#49546429) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

There is a specific issue with setting static IP addresses on a CoreOS image that results in systemd deciding to execute both the DHCP and static IP address unit files in parallel - a clear race condition on startup.

What are you talking about? systemd doesn't set up network interfaces.

Do you mean that you can start both NetworkManager and the "network" service? Because in that case, both of them use the same configuration files for an interface (/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-), so an interface can't have BOTH DHCP and static addresses. The network service also detects whether NetworkManager is handling an interface and will not configure it if so.

Finally, NetworkManager provides much better logging of its process than the network service does. If you want to debug the latter, you'd do it basically the same way you always have. "set -x" in the ifup scripts and look at the logs (which you have now with systemd, and did not in the past).

Comment: Re:systemd rules!!! (Score 4, Insightful) 463

by MSG (#49546387) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

Also, look at the journal using "journalctl -u named" to see that the output doesn't log the expected error "named: unknown option '--'". It is not logged

I don't know what to tell you, AC. You're wrong. I test every "example" of systemd problems that ACs post in this thread and they're all wrong. systemd logs daemon stderr to both the journal and to the syslog messages file.

Comment: Re:systemd rules!!! (Score 5, Interesting) 463

by MSG (#49546311) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

With systemd's policy against stderr, it is swallowed and not shown on the screen and not logged.

A lot of this criticism is coming from AC.

I tested your script on CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 a moment ago. Both logged your "Error that should not be thrown away" to both the journal and to the syslog messages file. Both detected that the service failed, and did not "throw away" its exit status.

And as another user pointed out, the old init system did not save stderr to the logs. systemd is an improvement in this aspect.

Comment: Re:systemd, eh? (Score 4, Insightful) 463

by MSG (#49546213) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

The rise of systemd occurred in a top-down manner, which is the exact opposite of how traditional open source software gains acceptance and widespread usage

Do you think Free Software was historically a democracy in which everyone voted and a team of developers slavishly set to work, granting their every wish?

No. Free Software systems were developed by people who needed the features that they wrote. Or wrote the features that they needed. Same thing. However you phrase it, the people who did the work made the decisions about what work was done.

And who is implementing systemd? The people doing the work. People who are willing to do the work to maintain a system which uses a different init will have a system with a different init. It's as simple as that. Slackware is such a system.

Comment: Re:systemd, eh? (Score 5, Informative) 463

by MSG (#49546153) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

it ignores exit statuses and swallows stderr

No, it doesn't. Exit statuses are the means by which it detects and reports that a service started successfully or failed. Stderr is recorded in both the journal and syslog messages file. I verified both on CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 a moment ago.

Comment: Re:Postgres hands down (Score 1) 320

by MSG (#49295271) Attached to: Why I Choose PostgreSQL Over MySQL/MariaDB

What really sucks is all of the applications that are so coded around MySQLisms that they don't run on ANSI-compliant engines.

Exactly. That is the primary reason I not only choose not to use MySQL, but actively advocate other SQL engines to other developers. Even where MySQL supports a standard syntax, their documentation tends to encourage their proprietary alternative syntax, making ports that much harder.

Comment: Re:Just another reminder to use LibreSSL (Score 3, Informative) 64

by MSG (#49293649) Attached to: OpenSSL Security Update Less Critical Than Expected, Still Recommended

No, OpenSSL is not Apache licensed. It has its own license, similar to BSD-with-attribution license. And the thorny issue is that this license is not compatible with the GPL. That's why projects have to modify the GPL to make a specific exception for it.

It's also why Red Hat started work to standardize on Mozilla's NSS as the one true SSL library. However, I'm not sure what the status of that project is.

Comment: Give it a rest (Score 5, Insightful) 755

by MSG (#49063191) Attached to: Removing Libsystemd0 From a Live-running Debian System

We aren't all "good at coding," but we know what init system we want.

We aren't all "doctors," but we know we don't want vaccines.

We aren't all "scientists," but we know global warming is a hoax.

I cannot be the only one sick of seeing this crap posted over and over. systemd is being implemented in distributions because a) it is good and b) the people making that decision are the ones qualified to do so.

Comment: Re:That was quick (Score 1) 779

by MSG (#48974741) Attached to: WA Bill Takes Aim at Boys' Dominance In Computer Classes

I would like to, but first we have to educate some of them.

See, the thing is that enough of us are convinced that women are valuable contributors that we want to prioritize their education and get them into the job market so that we can evaluate real world performance. Right now, attitudes like yours are making that difficult.

Comment: Re:My FreeBSD Report: Four Months In (Score 1) 471

by MSG (#48974719) Attached to: Systemd Getting UEFI Boot Loader

Does your 'dhclient' not daemon itself and sit on the ethernet ports waiting to re-lease and re-connect as necessary?

That's correct. ISC dhclient, the standard on GNU/Linux distributions, will not renew a lease if it attempts to get one and does not get a response. That might happen if a site loses power and the internet connection is not up when power is restored and the firewall boots. Or if the link is down long enough for dhclient to attempt renewal while the link is down.

The time spent on any item of the agenda [of a finance committee] will be in inverse proportion to the sum involved. -- C.N. Parkinson

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