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Comment: Re:Which RAID are they referring to? (Score 3, Informative) 221

by MSG (#49744587) Attached to: Linux 4.0 Has a File-System Corruption Problem, RAID Users Warned

That fix is actually in the wrong place. The fix for that is tracked in kernel.org's bugzilla # 98501. I'm not linking directly as linking to bugzilla tends to place too high a load on those systems. It's impolite.

Neil Brown said that he'd push the fix to Linus "shortly" at 2015-05-20 23:06:58 UTC. I still don't see the fix in Linus' tree.

Watch for a fix titled "md/raid0: fix restore to sector variable in raid0_make_request"

Comment: Re:The GPL (Score 1) 469

by MSG (#49633721) Attached to: Why Was Linux the Kernel That Succeeded?

Well, no it isn't. Those "small executables" can not function outside the systemd infrastructure

That's weird. I always heard people hold up qmail as being very unix-y because it was a pipeline of small apps with a specific purpose. But those individual apps don't function outside of the qmail infrastructure.

Yes, the systemd binaries have a specific purpose. That's definitely in line with the UNIX philosophy. The alternate approach is for every tool to be a Turing-complete general-purpose processor. Some UNIX tools are that (bash, sed, awk), but not every one is.

Comment: Re:Why the surprise? (Score 2) 177

by MSG (#49578755) Attached to: When Enthusiasm For Free Software Turns Ugly

other than a kernel

...which is what Linux is.

Phones and tablets run Linux. Routers run Linux. Smart TVs run Linux. PCs run Linux. It is entirely accurate to describe all of those systems as "Linux."

And that's why it has always been correct to call the POSIX compliant desktop and server systems GNU/Linux.

Comment: Re:systemd, eh? (Score 1) 494

by MSG (#49549423) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

Again, people posted repro steps, and I gave another example of a systemd bug so why you defending systemd?

Because I copied and pasted those steps into both CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 systems. Exit status was reflected in a "failed" state as expected, it wasn't thrown away. Messages written to stderr were recorded in both the journal and the syslog messages file. The steps described to reproduce the problem do not reproduce the problem on any system I have access to.

Comment: Re: systemd rules!!! (Score 4, Informative) 494

by MSG (#49546493) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

Well, I also tried it and could not reproduce those results on either Fedora 21 or CentOS 7. Both systems logged stderr to both the journal and the syslog messages file.

The old init system did not log stderr. If you didn't see an error printed to a tty, it was lost. systemd is actually an improvement in exactly the aspect that ACs complain about through this thread.

Comment: Re:systemd is a bad joke (Score 1) 494

by MSG (#49546455) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

the value of a craftsman is in his knowledge and experience of his tools

...and Linux had a bunch of non-POSIX features that went unused because the old init system was meant to be portable.

The people with knowledge of their tools (Linux, in this case) are quite happy to actually be using it rather than letting its features sit idle.

Comment: Re:systemd rules!!! (Score 2) 494

by MSG (#49546429) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

There is a specific issue with setting static IP addresses on a CoreOS image that results in systemd deciding to execute both the DHCP and static IP address unit files in parallel - a clear race condition on startup.

What are you talking about? systemd doesn't set up network interfaces.

Do you mean that you can start both NetworkManager and the "network" service? Because in that case, both of them use the same configuration files for an interface (/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-), so an interface can't have BOTH DHCP and static addresses. The network service also detects whether NetworkManager is handling an interface and will not configure it if so.

Finally, NetworkManager provides much better logging of its process than the network service does. If you want to debug the latter, you'd do it basically the same way you always have. "set -x" in the ifup scripts and look at the logs (which you have now with systemd, and did not in the past).

Comment: Re:systemd rules!!! (Score 4, Insightful) 494

by MSG (#49546387) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

Also, look at the journal using "journalctl -u named" to see that the output doesn't log the expected error "named: unknown option '--'". It is not logged

I don't know what to tell you, AC. You're wrong. I test every "example" of systemd problems that ACs post in this thread and they're all wrong. systemd logs daemon stderr to both the journal and to the syslog messages file.

Comment: Re:systemd rules!!! (Score 5, Interesting) 494

by MSG (#49546311) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

With systemd's policy against stderr, it is swallowed and not shown on the screen and not logged.

A lot of this criticism is coming from AC.

I tested your script on CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 a moment ago. Both logged your "Error that should not be thrown away" to both the journal and to the syslog messages file. Both detected that the service failed, and did not "throw away" its exit status.

And as another user pointed out, the old init system did not save stderr to the logs. systemd is an improvement in this aspect.

Comment: Re:systemd, eh? (Score 4, Insightful) 494

by MSG (#49546213) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

The rise of systemd occurred in a top-down manner, which is the exact opposite of how traditional open source software gains acceptance and widespread usage

Do you think Free Software was historically a democracy in which everyone voted and a team of developers slavishly set to work, granting their every wish?

No. Free Software systems were developed by people who needed the features that they wrote. Or wrote the features that they needed. Same thing. However you phrase it, the people who did the work made the decisions about what work was done.

And who is implementing systemd? The people doing the work. People who are willing to do the work to maintain a system which uses a different init will have a system with a different init. It's as simple as that. Slackware is such a system.

Comment: Re:systemd, eh? (Score 5, Informative) 494

by MSG (#49546153) Attached to: Ubuntu 15.04 Released, First Version To Feature systemd

it ignores exit statuses and swallows stderr

No, it doesn't. Exit statuses are the means by which it detects and reports that a service started successfully or failed. Stderr is recorded in both the journal and syslog messages file. I verified both on CentOS 7 and Fedora 21 a moment ago.

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