Comment: Re:it's been tried (Score 1) 377
Comment: Re:The stockholders can't afford a dividend (Score 1) 570
Comment: Re:What other products (Score 1) 1019
Now, it's possible that if this bill failed, we'd get a saner revamp of our healtcare system, but I don't see any evidence that might happen. This bill was just about the least that one could do which had a chance to impact things.
Finally, they're real treasury bonds, and like all treasury bonds, the money that they're purchased with is used by the government when they're purchased. That's hardly some sort of nefarious scheme; it's how all bonds work. They get paid back, with interest, over time. Now, since we control the SS administration, we could presumably give the bonds to the treasury or some such, but it'd still be a transfer of real assets. Of course, that'd be the blatent theft of trillions of dollars that were expressly paid by workers into the program, so I guess that it's important that said workers are properly misinformed so they don't notice.
Comment: Re:What other products (Score 1) 1019
Comment: Re:What other products (Score 2) 1019
The people don't understand the ObamaCare plan - not entirely sure I do either, as it's a bit of a Frankenstein plan, rather than best plan which we couldn't get, not because of "Socialism", but because the major Healthcare companies have the GOP (and some Dems) so buttoned up in their pockets that the best plan of all could never get passed (the plan which cuts them largely out of the loop.)
Both houses of Congress were Democratic when the bill was passed. The GOP had absolutely nothing to do with any compromises. QED
The entire watered-down bill was a result of a year long attempt at good-faith negotiation with republicans. That, of course, was a repeated exercise in futility where the republicans would demand concessions, get said concessions and then move the goal posts. All the while, they used their media mouth-pieces to scare and misinform the public about the bill ("death panels, anyone?") to drive down it's public support.. Once it became apparent that republicans were negotiating in bad-faith, the bill had to further be hacked up to be able to be passed under reconcilliation, which was required to get past the de-facto 60 vote requirement that republican abuse of the filibuster created. So, I think that it's fair to say that the GOP had more than a little to do with the compromised bill.
Imagine if you will, there was no Social Security in the United States and any administration trying to get that system through today, with the way big business interests have so many politicians on a gilt leash. It'd be horrible and the only people really benefiting (besides lawyers, who seem to find a way to prosper from anything) would be businesses, not the people it was meant to serve.)
Yes... imagine if we didn't have a program in which all the revenue is thrown into the general fund instead of actually being saved for future shortfalls. That would be horrible.
Buying treasury bonds doesn't count as saving? Should they just stuff the Social Security surplus under the world's largest mattress?
Comment: Re:Nothing good comes of this either way (Score 1) 1019
Comment: Re:I have a blue one (Score 1) 404
Comment: Re:Password protected CSV? (Score 1) 167
Comment: Re:Is anybody really surprised? (Score 1) 395
And just who pays for the interest on those Treasury bonds? Why, the rest of the government, funded by taxes and borrowing. Money is fungible. As I said before, if we charged the tax but didn't provide the benefit, the government would have a much rosier financial picture.
Sure, if we just steal the money (they're real treasury bonds) or default on our debts it'd make things better in terms of held debt, but it'd be wrong to do so. Sure money is fungible, but SS income doesn't go into the general fund. The SS administration invests any surpluses in treasury bonds, like many pensions, since they're the safest investment around. The bonds fund government deficits, just like all bonds, but that they're held by the SS administration doesn't make them somehow unreal.
Consider the case of the hypothetical state of Columbia. Columbia decides to introduce a lottery to pay for improvements to public education. Of course, if the lottery earns less than the amount normally spent on public education, it merely replaces the dollars previously allotted from the general fund while freeing up those dollars to be spent elsewhere. Let us assume that the crack legislative team that wrote this included a special provision that - should the expenses of public education be lower than the money raised - the money must be saved, by buying state bonds. Money is saved for a long rainy day, for decades. Finally, the day arrives that the expenses are greater than the tax collected. Now where does the money come from to pay those expenses? Well, the public school system redeems some bonds. Where does the money come to pay off the bonds? From the rest of the state government, which has to collect it in taxes, borrow it from elsewhere, or cut it from the funding of other programs - or cut education until it starts to provide surpluses again. Borrowing money from yourself is a neat trick that sovereign states can get away with longer than anyone else, and it was critical to get people to support SS, but the program has always been supported on current revenues, and when it can no longer depend on those, it will start to take money from the rest of government.
What you seem to be missing is that the deficit that the bonds are sold to pay for exists regardless of whether the education department (in your example) or Social Security (in the actual case) buys some of them. So, if SS weren't buying bonds, they'd have just been sold to other investors. If you're creating a hypothetical where the bonds were issued simply to soak up a surplus, then it's nothing similar to SS, where the debt would be the same regardless but just held in other places.