The comment I was replying to simply says 'Seriously, what good is that "surface" crap, except maybe as 3rd or 4th computer?'. That looks to me like it dismisses the whole Surface line. I apologize for not realizing that they were only talking about the ones running Windows RT. (I blame Microsoft for the general confusion about RT vs. Pro as most of the people I support still do not know the difference.)

That being said, I would still have spoken up to defend the Sureface RT and the Surface II as they still have awesome optional keyboards, allow tons of customization and management via PowerShell, and come with Office 2013.

I have tried $75, $100, and even $150 Bluetooth keyboards and none of them seem to work as well as the $119 - $129 Surface Type Keyboard. I went through many tablets before I got my first Surface device, and would still recommend the Surface RT & Surface II for anyone that wants Web, Email, & Office, but also wants a really lightweight device with a good keyboard. I hear good things about the latest Dell and ASUS systems, but they run full Windows 8 and cannot compete on price with iPad/Android or even Windows RT devices.

I do fully agree that if you do not need a portable keyboard and Office, Android will get you more bang for the buck.

Sorry, did not notice I was not logged in. the 'it' that I have been in for 20 years is actually IT. Obviously I still have not learned to proof read.

Anyway, I love my Surface Pro 3 and the will be happy to be rid of the rest of the cluttered mess that is my computer desk when my new dock comes in.

There is only one problem with that.. in 3rd party testing, the Zune HARDWARE beat every version of the iPod. Every component of the audio stack from the DAC to the in-the-box headphones was higher quality and produced better sound than the Apple hardware.

Zune lost to 'iPod + iTunes' and because it was a Microsoft product not because of the hardware.

Jorgie

So does anyone on /. actually contribute to a conversation anymore?

No wonder none of my coworkers come here anymore.

If they had wanted to go all the way, they would have picked "Snowball". :p

You are forgetting that 'urgent' critical & security patches don't wait for patch Tuesday. If a vulnerability is really needed, they will release it as soon as it passes regression testing.

Jorgie

yea, cause searching for "control panel" or right-clicking on the start menu are such complicated tasks that the average user just thinks the control panel has been removed. :)

I don't know about POP, but it only supports talking to Exchange via Outlook Anywhere (RPC over HTTP), not MAPI.

Jorgie

Your kidding right? They spend millions on usability testing. They just don't give a fu*k what the slashdot crowd thinks.

The new start menu passed through usability testing with flying colors. I hope you don't think that the opinions you see on Slashdot and other tech sites are at all representative of what the average consumer thinks.

Remember, the average 18 to 45 consumer spends a lot more time on their phone then they do on their computer. Their opinions are a lot different than folks that spend all day at a keyboard.

Jorgie

So buy a Mac. Apple has a wonderful history of listening to user feed back and not making drastic changes from version to version. ;)

They have made the decision of that it is important that all Windows 8 machines use a unified start menu. Because it is easy to click on a big touch-friendly button with either a mouse or a touch screen, but very hard to use small space efficient button with touch, touch wins.

You can disagree all you want, but I don't think it is going to change.

That's easy. Don't hit the start menu. Put all your shortcuts in a folder structure and set the top level folder as a toolbar.

I agree that folks that want a text based start menu will never be happy with Windows 8.

On the other hand, 8.1 addresses some of what you specifically mention. You can now set the background of the start menu to just show the same image as the desktop and you can now make 1/4 size tiles allowing for a much more compact interface.

I know a lot of people would be happier if the start menu was not full screen and nothing short of that is going to appease them. I just don't happen to feel that way.

Jorgie

I do not think there is any malice there, I think 3rd party folks have not had 8.1 in their hands long enough to update.

As other have mentioned, Start8 works just fine.

Jorgie

I really like Win8, but I 100% agree with you here.

I got around it by writing an app that just typed "CTRL-ESC". I then pined it to the task-bar and set the task-bar to not auto-hide.

It acts just like the start button in Win8.1 / WS2012-R2.

I wish they would make MSTSC block the mouse at the corners like Win8 does in multi-monitor mode. (In case you don't know, when using multiple monitors, Win8/WS2012 blocks the mouse from moving from screen to screen if you are close to the corner, allowing you to get the start button and charms menu easily without over-shooting.)

Jorgie

Then you can hit CTRL-ESC, type CMD, hit ENTER. :)

Jorgie