You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine, and the bakery owner is entitled to theirs. The tricky thing about a conscience is that somebody else can't make that decision for you, it's an individual thing. If the bakery owner really believes as a religious matter that they can't do ABC, then the sledgehammer of the state is pretty much putting them out of the wedding cake business. Personally, I think that's a crying shame.

If the gay couple were more tolerant, they could certainly coexist with the bakery, and everybody would be happy. But no, they want to bully a religious person into being forced to violate their conscience or risk going out of business. So without passing judgment on whether the bakery is factually correct or not, I'd say the gay couple are clearly bullies and jerks.

I'm not sure whether you're lying, or if you just read really biased news sources. Check out this article about the big case that most people have been talking about. The article is from a liberal, gay-friendly perspective but still serves nicely because they are reporting the facts:

http://www.westword.com/restau...

...and please observe that the bakery turned them down immediately when they asked for the cake, NOT sabotaging their event at the last minute.

So stop spreading misinformation about this issue, 'K?

Haha, nice try, but you're attempting to "have your cake and eat it, too" (if you'll pardon the expression).

Feast on this tasty information: cake decoration (in general, but much, much more so for weddings) is a very customized undertaking. The cake typically is supposed to reflect, in an artistic way, things about the couple. A really obvious example is the topper which is placed by the cake decorator. A topper would often have little figurines of the married couple, etc.

So your attempt to equate a wedding cake to a ordinary and unadorned grocery store loaf of bread in terms of its embodied creative expression really "puts the icing on the cake" as far as the lameness of the arguments in this thread so far.

You certainly wrote a lot of words, but carefully avoided engaging in the points I made that refute your position, aka straw man fallacy.

The court decided wrongly in that instance. Presumably the judge and/or jury had never actually decorated a cake themselves. It's an artistic work, and the government shouldn't be able to force somebody to create an artistic or creative work. Of course, you think the government should force people to do stuff like that, because you are... a fascist?

OK... so you can believe whatever you want, but you aren't allowed to talk about your beliefs? You should just keep quiet about them? BZZZZZZZTT! Wrong answer. Back to civics 101.

I agree with that... so what are we arguing about, exactly? I think you're going to say that you want the government to force somebody to do something. Isn't that right? (Libero-fascists are always doing that sort of thing.)

Then why did you mention it in your reply? What is this mysterious "conversation" you reference, anyway? Seriously, stop pointing your snooty nose so high up in the air and you may actually engage with other people who are trying to discuss things rationally.

Sure, you are welcome to start a religion related to that and believe anything you want to. But you can't force other people to cooperate with your religion. Why are you so big on forcing other people do stuff? Why do you want the government to force artisans do stuff [that violates their consciences]? Why can't you just chill?

If you are an American who studied civics in school, you should know this stuff. Freedom of religion, dude.

OK, smartypants, what law says that you can force an artisan to perform a creative work for you if they prefer not to?

It's admittedly a hypothetical. I can't say whether orthodox Jewish bakery owners would knowingly apply a Christian symbol to their product. People are different. Maybe all of them would. Maybe some would, and some wouldn't. My point is that you'd have to be a really disgusting jerk to try to destroy a small business owner's livelihood just because they're trying to stay true to their own dictates of conscience. The gay lobby stoops that low, and it disgusts me. How hard is it to walk down the street and pick a different shop? Talk about first world problems.

No, you're just in denial because I made a point you don't have an answer for. If you ask the kosher bakery for rolls decorated with a traditional Jewish symbol or Hebrew letter, they might be happy to comply. But if you ask for rolls decorated with a cross, they have objections because they disagree with your religion.

If heterosexual wedding planners ask a Christian cake decorator for a wedding cake topped with husband/wife figures, the bakery is happy to comply. If a gay couple ask for husband/husband wedding topper, the baker declines and asks them to contact a different bakery.

You tell me, what's the difference, genius? (And why do you hate Jewish small business owners and want to see them bankrupted because of their religion?)

I hope you clean up that sarcasm you dripped all over the floor. ;)

OK, my dear AC. Do you have the right to go to Brooklyn, find a kosher bakery run by Orthodox Jews, and demand that they create "holy cross" themed and decorated rolls for an Easter party? If they decline and ask you to contact a different bakery, should you have the right to sue them and ultimately bankrupt them and drive them out of business if they continue to follow their religious scruples?

To be consistent, you'll have to agree that the above is just as legit as the current Gay lobby's bullying. So my next question -- why do you hate Jewish people?

Nonsense. You are spreading misinformation about the law and about the reason for the law.

Nobody should be able to force an artisan out of business because they refuse to accept commissioning for a creative work, where the work itself is specified so as to violate the artists or artisan's religious convictions. Anyone who is fairminded can see the difference between creative works (like cake design and photography) versus general services like food at the deli or buying a ticket at the movie theater.

Unfortunately, the gay lobby is not always fairminded. They want to bankrupt and destroy small business owners who refuse to be bullied.